| Author |
Message |
menotti
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Encinitas, CA
|
 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:26 am Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
 |
|
Any thoughts on this? Sorry for double posting in the other thread too  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
menotti
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Encinitas, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:58 am Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
| menotti wrote: |
To be clear, the symptoms and steps I took were:
- Turn ignition to battery on
- Coolant light blinking
- Wait 5 seconds or so, turn engine on
- Light continues to blink - NEVER stops
- Pull relay
- Light continues to blink
Sounds like a problem in the gauge itself with the fix being something like this, yeah? http://www.vanagonauts.com/Warning-Light-Fix241.htm |
 Now I am a little dumbfounded!
I checked again the overflow tank with the engine cold and even though it seemed to have an acceptable amount of coolant in there, I figured why not bring it closer to the top line just in case. I had figured this wouldn't have anything to do with the sensor in the expansion tank.
Lo and behold I start up the van and the light is NO LONGER BLINKING. Wow, I though, I am a complete moron but glad this is fixed.
I drove to the grocery store with the light off and the temp rising to a comfortable midpoint.
Come out of the store and start up the van, the light is back! What?
I am going to check the overflow once more tonight and if it is roughly in the same place it sounds like, given I did the check by pulling the relay, that I have a bad capacitor in the gauge itself, yeah? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
menotti
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Encinitas, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
| IdahoDoug wrote: |
| So, where is "relay 43" located? |
Followed the instructions in this other post: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=184096&start=40
| Quote: |
| One easy test that may help is to wait for the next time it flashes when you know the level in the tank is ok and the needle isn't reading hot. Simply pull the "coolant level warning relay" from the dash relay/fuse panel. It is plugged into relay socket 3 and should have a large 43 or 42 stamped on the end you can see. With the led blinking away, just yank that relay out and see if the blinking immediately stops. If it still blinks then chances are you have a gauge with failing electronics inside. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10355
Location: N. Idaho
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
So, where is "relay 43" located?
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1993 Toyota LandCruiser, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
menotti
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Encinitas, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
To be clear, the symptoms and steps I took were:
- Turn ignition to battery on
- Coolant light blinking
- Wait 5 seconds or so, turn engine on
- Light continues to blink - NEVER stops
- Pull relay
- Light continues to blink
Sounds like a problem in the gauge itself with the fix being something like this, yeah? http://www.vanagonauts.com/Warning-Light-Fix241.htm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
menotti
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Encinitas, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Were it me, I'd remove the coolant low relay and see if light continues to show the same behaviour. If it does, I think that indicates the issue is at the dash.
A reliable coolant low light is quite handy to have.
Neil. |
Thanks! I pulled the big ol relay with '43' on it while the light was blinking and found it kept blinking. This sounds like the new gauge I put in with the clock --> tach swap has some kind of issue itself. Good diagnostic tip! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kaalualu
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2011
Posts: 287
Location: Big Island, Hawaii
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
Excuse me, windig89, not 86...
_________________
'84 Transporter 16" CLK's/LED's/ AT's/Mansi injectors
'86 Wolfey Weekender Westfalia AT's/otherwise stock
Sold-'82 TinTop Diesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kaalualu
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2011
Posts: 287
Location: Big Island, Hawaii
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
Windig86, did that all metal/No plastic sensor prong set up Work?
I tried on and it was registering hot really quick. My older on is at slightly above LED. Anyone else have that issue?
_________________
'84 Transporter 16" CLK's/LED's/ AT's/Mansi injectors
'86 Wolfey Weekender Westfalia AT's/otherwise stock
Sold-'82 TinTop Diesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
menotti
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Encinitas, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| tencentlife wrote: |
Try unplugging the sensor connector atop the expansion tank, bridge the pins in the connector, then drive it and see. If the light doesn't come on anymore, it's trouble wit the sensor. Often the probes get gunked up and can't sense continuity thru the coolant. Just pulling out the sensor and cleaning the probe pins does the trick.
Here's a diagnostic for the level sensor electrics:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=184096 |
Similar problem for me and I bridged the connector with a bobby pin. Still had flashing light at idle. Do you think it needs to be driven to be sure?
Temp gauge itself rises as it should. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
menotti
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Encinitas, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
| IdahoDoug wrote: |
Menotti,
If I recall, the sensor has a plastic hex head. So use a socket to fit that and you'll have plenty of leverage? Or perhaps an open or box end wrench imperfectly fit from an angle will do it? With the socket, I can't recall if the wires are an issue, or if a long socket gives enough room to ball the wires up inside the socket as well. It's been awhile since I've dealt with this.
Doug |
Yeah, can give that a go. See if I can find a good angle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
menotti
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Encinitas, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Were it me, I'd remove the coolant low relay and see if light continues to show the same behaviour. If it does, I think that indicates the issue is at the dash.
A reliable coolant low light is quite handy to have.
Neil. |
I removed the connector from the sensor and jumped it with a bobby pin. Started the van and got the same blinking light. So my guess is not a problem with the sensor itself, unless the bobby pin doesnt make a good jumper!
Given I also didn't have the low coolant flashing before replacing the foil, seems like something wrong with my pcb install. Though everything looks right.
My next steps I think are to test with a multimeter all around and see what I can find based on the other advice here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
IdahoDoug
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10355
Location: N. Idaho
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
Menotti,
If I recall, the sensor has a plastic hex head. So use a socket to fit that and you'll have plenty of leverage? Or perhaps an open or box end wrench imperfectly fit from an angle will do it? With the socket, I can't recall if the wires are an issue, or if a long socket gives enough room to ball the wires up inside the socket as well. It's been awhile since I've dealt with this.
Thanks for the tip on the broken wire. Would be awesome to discover that's been my issue all along....
Neil - any more specifics on that relay removal test? Where is it, what to do with wires after disconnected, etc? Thanks
Doug
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1993 Toyota LandCruiser, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10495
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
Were it me, I'd remove the coolant low relay and see if light continues to show the same behaviour. If it does, I think that indicates the issue is at the dash.
A reliable coolant low light is quite handy to have.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 10215
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
| menotti wrote: |
| ...My light only started going for the coolant level when I replaced the factory foil with the gowesty pcb, but I checked all the connections there and they look good. Maybe the old foil wasn't showing the light. |
Not sure what year/engine you have - but on my 84 (Digijet) a simple break in the wire from the sensor caused the light to blink.
In my case the break was where the wire got pinched (beneath the coil) and the fault was intermittent -- took a while to reliably recreate and diagnose.
The point is, although a bum sensor is a common problem, check everything for clean, tight & unbroken. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
menotti
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Encinitas, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:40 am Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
| IdahoDoug wrote: |
The SFH is an ideal tool for this situation and I'm impressed you know of its existence. It's a sage man who knows when to leave the BFH in the toolbox for its subtle cousin.
I also had the same "top blow off" happen to a sensor. Of course in the very most remote place I've ever had the Van. Top of a snowy mountain in Montana. Had to use various bits from aspirin bottles, food wrap and the like to get it to hold to limp into town. Then one of those rubbery boat drain cam type marine plugs worked for days of normal driving. So, I would say not to assume it was from physical interference unless you know that to be the case. I used JB Weld to put mine back together and kept it in the glovebox for years as a spare get home bit. |
small friendly hammer and big friggin/friendly hammer, yes?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
menotti
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Encinitas, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:31 am Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
| Ahwahnee wrote: |
| menotti wrote: |
...If I remove the blue cap from the pressurized expansion tank while the engine is cold, can I simply add coolant and top off, replace the cap, and not have to do anything else? Like bleed the system now?
Same goes if I remove the sensor from the pressurized tank... |
Yes to both. With the engine cold and not running you can top off the tank and/or R&R the sender. That action alone does not require a bleed.
There is a technique for getting more coolant in the tank that involves running the engine at high RPM and holding it there while you remove the cap, fill and replace the cap - but that is a bit more involved.
If you continually have to top up that tank and there is no evidence of a leak then there are things you will want to check. |
Thanks a bunch. Checked under the blue cap and we're topped off on coolant.
Seems likely the sensor needs a cleaning but I'm having a heck of a time removing it. Sounds like others had to remove the whole tank to do this if it is in its original position  Any other tips on removal?
My light only started going for the coolant level when I replaced the factory foil with the gowesty pcb, but I checked all the connections there and they look good. Maybe the old foil wasn't showing the light. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 10215
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
| menotti wrote: |
...If I remove the blue cap from the pressurized expansion tank while the engine is cold, can I simply add coolant and top off, replace the cap, and not have to do anything else? Like bleed the system now?
Same goes if I remove the sensor from the pressurized tank... |
Yes to both. With the engine cold and not running you can top off the tank and/or R&R the sender. That action alone does not require a bleed.
There is a technique for getting more coolant in the tank that involves running the engine at high RPM and holding it there while you remove the cap, fill and replace the cap - but that is a bit more involved.
If you continually have to top up that tank and there is no evidence of a leak then there are things you will want to check. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
menotti
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2017
Posts: 65
Location: Encinitas, CA
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
Glad I found this thread, I have a really naive question for you all. I'm having similar symptoms as others here with the incessantly blinking coolant light. It sounds like there's a high chance that I have a bum sensor or that I might need to top off my coolant.
On to the dumb question that I had a hard time finding an answer to. If I remove the blue cap from the pressurized expansion tank while the engine is cold, can I simply add coolant and top off, replace the cap, and not have to do anything else? Like bleed the system now?
Same goes if I remove the sensor from the pressurized tank. I'm imagining this let's in outside air but is it necessary to bleed if I just replace this sensor. I imagine this air that's above the coolant is self bled?
Thanks for putting up with my dumb question! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
| IdahoDoug wrote: |
| The SFH is an ideal tool for this situation and I'm impressed you know of its existence. |
Damned by small praise.
Aloha
tp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
otiswesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006
Posts: 1768
Location: Portland
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: coolant level sensor? |
|
|
| Honuak wrote: |
My coolant level sensor failed breaking at the top of the threads. I think because it sticks up too high and gets jammed a bit by the engine lid. I have a RMW tank that puts the sensor wire connection up higher than stock.
elegant solution? |
The stock tank is still available and should last 15-20 years
_________________
1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1988 T3 Syncro Single cab
Just a regular guy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
