Subaru aftermarket ecu (sorry devesvws)

[Gumboguy]

I have a stinger 4424 on my ej20 turbo in my 1974 Bay westie and I just experiencedsymptoms of a cracked piston.
Is it stingers fault? My tuner? Dreaded rand on ringland failure?

[240Gordy]

wow. somebody quoted Shakespeare in a thread about aftermarket fuel injection systems. cool.
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR

[kayakmaster]

Without pointing any fingers, I am now running a Subaru ECU in my 87 GL Syncro. No Knock Sensor/ NO Bueno
_________________
Jack

'87 GL Syncro (conversion)

[onwardtothestars]

[a914622]

[Gorge Runner]

[MarkWard]

Yes the TEC from electromotive systems can use a knock sensor as an additional input. The knock sensor would also need some tuning. I still believe that most street high compression engines can be tuned so that the Knock sensor is a safety input rather than an actual online input. Lower compression engines would be even less likely to detonate. In order for the knock sensor to work, it needs to recognize a knock. That means the engine has already passed the safety zone. Better in my opinion to tune so that you don't depend on the knock sensor. We race 15:1 4 cylinder engines without knock sensors. We do run 115 octaine leaded fuel to fight detonation. In racing the horsepower and torque are best just before detonation and before too lean a mixture. It is a fine line to sneek up on.

[a914622]

I would have to agree with you about the Motec. After spending that kind of coin I expected to get online support. I was tuning a 2.2 porsche 6 twin plug and youd have thought I was asking them for the launch codes for nuks..
I think the Electromotive has the ability to use the knock sensor??
I know there is a guy locally that sets up kits from junkyard parts for the mega-squirt. The majority of the stuff comes off the ford Zetec focus. But again I'm not familiar with it.


I think in the vanagon a knock sensor should be used. And again not to hijack the thread but the PM i got stated a 2.5 suby was destroyed by pinging/knocking wile running the Stinger 4 !! I am not running it any more.

The guys at Metric motors did me up a stock 02 impreza harness. Great guys!!!

jcl
_________________
87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru

[MarkWard]

Before Electromotive was in the Engine Management system, they were an automotive ignition company. The benefit of using the Electromotive Engine management system is that it is built on top of their robust ignition system. On our race cars, we can not hear detonation or pinging. I would think on a street vehicle regardless of weight you should be able to tune the timing on the timing table if it is pinging or the mixture. It allows for setting timing and mixture not only based on rpm, but engine load. I don't want to knock knock sensors, but they were installed on vehicles to compensate for poor grades of fuel. If you are running on the knock sensor, something is out of adjustment. I race against others that use the Megasquirt and the Motec. Motec engineers are a bunch of snobs. Megasquirt is more priced to the do it yourselfer. I think the ECU's come in kits. Not sure how their tech support is. Electromotive Tech support has been top notch. If your reseller can't help you, they usually can. I'd like to learn a little more about the megasquirt system. I think one might be able to be adapted to work with the Vanagon engine harness, by putting the parts in the stock VW ECU housing. Just not sure there would be enough demand to justify the effort. mark

[dhermanesq]

All things considered, I personally would go for it! Half the fun of all this debauchery is the fun of tweaking and tuning and getting things how YOU want them. I had fun putting that motor in the vgon and the other half of the fun was the harness and actually tuning everything to perform how I wanted it to. The stock ECU would be easier and blah blah blah but you can tne this bitch to how you are driving it! Really now, how cool is that?!?
_________________
1993 VW Eurovan 5-Speed
1995 Mercedes S600 v12 (Rides again!)
2001 Passat V6-30v

[a914622]

I have used the Electromotive system on a nasty 302 chevy 8v. Its good stuff.
Iv also head good thinks from the Maga squirt crowd but have not used it.

Iv received a few PM's about using the Stinger system in the past few weeks. I just wanted to update this post. I have heard thur the PMs Outfront motors doesn't run a knock sensor, and claims its not needed. I have found that not the case with the heavier vanagon.


jcl
_________________
87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru

[MarkWard]

We use the Electromotive TEC GT in our race cars. As stated above it can be tuned for any requirement. Did I miss the post, what brand of Engine management is included with the Test Engine? Most aftermarket Engine Management systems utilize similar configurations. The software look will vary from brand to brand, but you will be adjusting the same things.

For some, the impression is programmable engine management is "easy". There is a learning curve and if you don't know what you are doing, can damage a good engine. Too lean, too much timing too rich etc. If you intend to move forward with this system and be the tuner, you should get a hold of the software, install it on your computer and see how it feels. If it all looks like greek to you, then there will be a learning curve. Electromotive still uses a serial cable to connect to the ECU. I believe the other systems do as well. Most modern day laptops do not come with a serial port. You will need some sort of adapter then to go from serial to usb. These adapters unless they have been improved are finicky.

In the end, you will need to be the expert if you intend to travel in your vanagon. You will have to understand how it is wired as well. Good luck with you project. Regards mark

[a914622]

I just wanted to post an update. Im no longer running the Stinger 4 on my Vanagon. The lack of a knock sensor was causing hard knocking under up hills and high altitude acceleration. I thing Metric motors has a street tune that may be more suited for a lighter car.

I plan on using the stinger in the 914 with a 2.5.


jcl
_________________
87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru

[kayakmaster]

How bitchin is that, The internet is a wonderful tool, as is this website. I'm very nervous about trying this aftermarket system that not too many people are familiar with. And sure enough I get a response from somebody using it and telling me it works great, I just pm'd him. With any luck I will hear good things about some of my concerns ( like will the tachometer still work, how does the system handle altitude, etc). Anyway I feel that I take more than I give to this forum, partly because anything I know about is usually already answered before I see the post.
I will try to be more of a contributing member as I have accomplished some pretty neat modifications to my van.

Thanks all
_________________
Jack

'87 GL Syncro (conversion)

[ChesterKV]

[a914622]

Im running the ems (stinger 4) on my vanagon with the 2002 2.5 suby. It can be tuned to run as clean as you want. If you have a laptop you can do a data colection and let the system tune itself. ( set the A/F ratio you want) the idle is a little ruff.The guys at metric motors know both subaru and the ems.
AS FARE as small car goes, They did the frist factory wireharness for me.CRAP CRAP CRAP!!! The harness going to the fuel pump cought fire on the first fire up, but ofcorse it wasnt there falt. It fryed the o2 sensers.and back fed power to the injectors. Not not a big fan of how problems are treated at small car.I would not put any stock in small car!
If the EMS does not work for you you can allways put an early 2.2 stock system on. The intake bolts right on.
_________________
87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru

[dobryan]

You might want to also ask this question on the yahoo subaruvanagon listserve as they also have many CA members with experience.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[PIRATE]

are you getting the test motor from the guys down at wide open. they put those motors in there off road buggys. my buddy works for them. he said that the ecus are really basic. but like every one else is saying I would just get your swap done. then play with some ecu stuff after van is back on the road. Is that ej25 test motor carb certified in CA. I called up smallcar asking them what years the ej25 engines are carb certified and they told me to ask my local smog guy. terrible business they should know this crap if they sell to people in CA. any way I was basically just posting if you were talking about the motors WIde Open gets.

[Christopher Schimke]

First off, I put very, very little stock in SmallCar's advice. I've been steered wrong and stomped on too many times.

Before you decide on going either route, talk to the company that would be providing the aftermarket ECU. Ask them if it is a complete plug and play system, meaning that the wiring harness comes completely ready to install and if the ECU comes with at least a base map to get he thing started and running half way decent right off the bat.

Second, ask them about the tuning aspect of the ECU and how much time they expect a novice to get the hang of simply accessing the various readouts for the various sensors via a laptop. Have them give you the baselines for each sensor so that you know what you are looking at. This will at least let YOU take a look at what is going on in the system. I would even go so far as to ask them to show you the extreme basics of tuning the ECU before you make a purchase. Of course this means that you will have to pay them a personal visit.

One other thing that I would consult them on is the wiring harness itself. Assuming that it is a plug and play type set-up, is the harness long enough to allow you to position the ECU where you want/need it? Is the wiring to the MAF sensor in roughly the stock location allowing you to use the stock Subaru intake tract or will you have to custom make a intake tract or extend the wiring to fit the factory loation? Where is the oxygen sensor intended to be located in their system? Will their wiring to the oxygen sensor allow you to use an exhaust system that will work in a Vanagon or will you have extend the wiring to match the oxygen sensor location on your chosen exhaust system?

One thing that I would DEFINATELY plan on doing after installation of this type of system is paying a trusted (have the engine/ECU supplier to give you recommendations) Subaru tuner to put the van on a dyno and set up the ECU to run in the most effiecient manor for the van. This WILL cost you some money but if you go this aftermarket ECU route, it WILL be worth it.

See, these are some of the hoops that you will more than likely have to jump through if you go the aftermarket ECU route. But to be honest, I feel it is worth it in the end. You will end up with a system that can be tuned exactly to what the engine needs, exctracting more horespower and torque from the engine and maybe even ending up getting better mileage than the stock system.

Even though this is your first conversion, if the aftermarket ECU comes with a good basemap that will at least allow you to drive the vehicle without damaging anything and all of the little details (as described above) fall into place without too much headache, the overall conversion will not be that much different than a standard conversion and the result can be much better in my opinion.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]

[kayakmaster]

I beleive I will be ok with smog, without going into much detail, this will never see a bar referee or a smog check station. I also believe that the engine and ecu vendor will help me find the adequate tune for street /economy. also consider with my opening statement this motor can be pretty free flowing if I choose to go that route. the system is called ems and can be check out at fuel-injection.com. if rs4-380 or anyone else wants to give the site a glance, I would appreciate it.
_________________
Jack

'87 GL Syncro (conversion)