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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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 Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, how bout this?
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| mightyart wrote: |
Dude, that was my skull!
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I NEVER looked anything like that...... I didn't like buttons. Not that kind.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Dude, that was my skull!
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| flyingCoyote wrote: |
| droogvan wrote: |
.... I've been told by farmers that hemp would cross pollinate and effectively ruin the THC content of marijuana grown anywhere near the vicinity. I'm far from being a botanist so If anybody here can confirm or deny this belief I'm all ears.
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No, it would not affect the THC content of the current crop AT ALL. Or so I've heard. |
Not true. Content continues to rise throughout the 8-20 weeks of florescence (depending on varietal), which would be immediately terminated with the mass pollination, as it switches to seed development. Of course you would have to go with a 12-20 week florescence varietal to try to come close to blending in with the physical characteristics of the hemp, as far as leaf color and shape, branching characteristics, and especially internodal length.
Not that I was involved in any way with that industries development through the '70s and '80s, nor was I hired by folks to design and set up large indoor and (literally) underground operations during that time. It's just something I happened to hear on the radio while driving my VANAGON.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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klucz
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2006
Posts: 1062
Location: Chicago, IL
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: reefer madness |
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| J Charlton wrote: |
| GeorgeL wrote: |
| J Charlton wrote: |
Maybe its time to rethink the attitude that we have towards government subsidies as well - if the govt. pays a $1.00 subsidy for domestic production and that $1.00 stays here to be spent here, isn't that better than the $1.00 going offshore to some despotic pumper of ancient oil? |
Not when that $1.00 (and more) is being spent by the subsidized farmer on conventional fuel with which to grow the corn and process the biofuel. That's essentially the current situation with E85. |
Nevertheless, the ethanol that is produced will replace some of the previously imported oil and as the supply of it increases through the econonical processing of celulose to ethanol more and more of our energy requirements will be met with domestic sustainable production. One of the most important issues that we have to address is not only our dependance on fossil oil but also our dependance on the supply of it from feudal despotic regimes with little or no respect for human rights. Maybe we should call it "blood oil". |
Yes, let's come up with an emotional term to encourage the imposition of our system of values on foreigners. Oh, that's what we did in Iraq... 
It doesn't pencil out when you use 1100J of petroleum to produce 1000J of biofuel, no matter if the source of the biofuel is food or non-food. There is still a net loss of the energy equation.
Cellulose conversion to ethanol is still experimental. Yes, research money should be pumped into that possibility, but that doesn't mean that we should be paying Big Agriculture bonus money for conventional corn-based ethanol. |
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J Charlton 
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2007
Posts: 1546
Location: The True North Strong and Free
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: reefer madness |
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| GeorgeL wrote: |
| J Charlton wrote: |
Maybe its time to rethink the attitude that we have towards government subsidies as well - if the govt. pays a $1.00 subsidy for domestic production and that $1.00 stays here to be spent here, isn't that better than the $1.00 going offshore to some despotic pumper of ancient oil? |
Not when that $1.00 (and more) is being spent by the subsidized farmer on conventional fuel with which to grow the corn and process the biofuel. That's essentially the current situation with E85. |
Nevertheless, the ethanol that is produced will replace some of the previously imported oil and as the supply of it increases through the econonical processing of celulose to ethanol more and more of our energy requirements will be met with domestic sustainable production. One of the most important issues that we have to address is not only our dependance on fossil oil but also our dependance on the supply of it from feudal despotic regimes with little or no respect for human rights. Maybe we should call it "blood oil".
_________________
NAHT hightop availability May 18 2023 -
Bend Oregon - for Oregon, California- (7 tot , 3 available), Kennewick Wa (6 tot, 1 available), Small Car Performance Fife Wa. (7 tot 4 avail ), Fairbanks Alaska (1 tot 0 avail)
Future availability TBD : Springfield Mass. Staunton Va, Florida, Colorado, Grand Junction Co., SLC probably late 2024 |
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flyingCoyote
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2006
Posts: 514
Location: Burp Hollow, OR
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| droogvan wrote: |
.... I've been told by farmers that hemp would cross pollinate and effectively ruin the THC content of marijuana grown anywhere near the vicinity. I'm far from being a botanist so If anybody here can confirm or deny this belief I'm all ears.
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No, it would not affect the THC content of the current crop AT ALL. Seeds resulting from this pollination would be affected, but growing pot from seed is pretty much confined to indoor breeding programs and 3rd world outdoor cultivation. Cross-pollination like this would only be a direct problem for crops where the seed is the desired part, such as corn...grow different types of corn too close together and you end up with sort of a mess.
Or so I've heard.
_________________
1985 Vanagon GL / homebrew camper (daily driver)
1974 Super Beetle (Wife's daily driver) |
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flyingCoyote
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2006
Posts: 514
Location: Burp Hollow, OR
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: How many "GREEN" people are on this forum? |
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| allsierra123 wrote: |
| Just curious how many DIY greenies are here? Do you frequent any forums geared towards green living? |
I guess I'd qualify...
My partner and I grow some of our own food, and plan to grow most of it within the next couple of years. Getting dairy goats next month, too, and we do strictly organic, semi-biodynamic outdoor growing. During the growing season, we get most of of our purchased food from a family farm CSA a few miles down the road.
We buy everything we can in bulk, and our monthly garbage run consists of just a couple of small shopping bags + a bunch of recycling. We use solar to charge our consumer electronic items, we compost, and heat our home with slashpile wood (stuff that the loggers would just burn up in a big bonfire to clear for replanting.)
We do our home renovations using almost entirely recycled materials (building a goat stable out of shipping pallets now) and don't own a TV or air conditioner. We use few chemicals (a little bleach to sterilize homebrew equipment) and only the toilet goes to the septic tank, the rest goes to a graywater system that feeds some shade trees.
We buy very few new things, choosing instead to browse thrift shops and get books/videos from the library.
There's a lot more but this is getting boring, eh?
Anyway, balancing all this goodness is the fact that her car is a 74 Super Beetle, and I have an 85 Vanagon, 76 Dodge pickup (short trips for firewood etc), and a 73 Suzuki 2-stroke motorcycle...and we live fifteen miles from the supermarket, and 20 miles from town. So all that 'green living' stuff we do is partly just compensating for our smoggy vehicles. (but I only go to town once a week or so, usually carpooling with my partner when she has a class to attend)
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1985 Vanagon GL / homebrew camper (daily driver)
1974 Super Beetle (Wife's daily driver) |
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 7346
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: Re: reefer madness |
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| J Charlton wrote: |
Maybe its time to rethink the attitude that we have towards government subsidies as well - if the govt. pays a $1.00 subsidy for domestic production and that $1.00 stays here to be spent here, isn't that better than the $1.00 going offshore to some despotic pumper of ancient oil? |
Not when that $1.00 (and more) is being spent by the subsidized farmer on conventional fuel with which to grow the corn and process the biofuel. That's essentially the current situation with E85. |
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J Charlton
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2007
Posts: 1546
Location: The True North Strong and Free
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: reefer madness |
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Perhaps we should rename this thread Reefer madness - but then all the Dometic fans would be up in arms ...
But really ... back to ethanol - this link has some pretty good info on ethanol and of particular interest should be the section on the direction of producing ethanol from cellulose - i.e. non food material.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol
Also of note is that the production of ethanol using sugar beets as feedstock rather than corn is far more energy effective.
Think of it - producing sugar beets to make ethanol, the waste pulp is composted and heated by the methane that the composting material produces which also provides the energy for the ethanol prodection. The composted beet matter is spread back on the fields rather than chemical fertilizers.
It used to be said that when farmers butcher a pig that they used all of it except the squeal.
Maybe its time to rethink the attitude that we have towards government subsidies as well - if the govt. pays a $1.00 subsidy for domestic production and that $1.00 stays here to be spent here, isn't that better than the $1.00 going offshore to some despotic pumper of ancient oil?
good article, lots of charts and graphs
http://www.distill.com/World-Fuel-Ethanol-A&O-2004.html
The inviting aspect of ethanol, and biodiesel, is that they use current stored solar energy (in the form of plant material) rather than depleting a finite reservoir of ancient solar energy.
_________________
NAHT hightop availability May 18 2023 -
Bend Oregon - for Oregon, California- (7 tot , 3 available), Kennewick Wa (6 tot, 1 available), Small Car Performance Fife Wa. (7 tot 4 avail ), Fairbanks Alaska (1 tot 0 avail)
Future availability TBD : Springfield Mass. Staunton Va, Florida, Colorado, Grand Junction Co., SLC probably late 2024 |
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Waldemar Sikorski
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Joined: June 24, 2005
Posts: 573
Location: EU
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3437
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| levi wrote: |
| droogvan wrote: |
.... I've been told by farmers that hemp would cross pollinate and effectively ruin the THC content of marijuana grown anywhere near the vicinity. I'm far from being a botanist so If anybody here can confirm or deny this belief I'm all ears.
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Without going into detail, I can confirm this for you.
Btw, VANAGON! |
Pollen can even come in on your clothes and fingers____Woops
Sgt. Shultz " I know nothing, I see nothingg"
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LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
....Bad Sneakers.... |
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| droogvan wrote: |
.... I've been told by farmers that hemp would cross pollinate and effectively ruin the THC content of marijuana grown anywhere near the vicinity. I'm far from being a botanist so If anybody here can confirm or deny this belief I'm all ears.
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Without going into detail, I can confirm this for you.
Btw, VANAGON!
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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Perales
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 2046
Location: Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Now this is just getting silly (Vanagon)
I think I'll stop now.
_________________
-- 1987 Westfalia automatic (Captain Vino) |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hemp won't get you high.
Link
But Vanagon will!!! |
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Perales
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 2046
Location: Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Green people?
Vanagon, Vanagon
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-- 1987 Westfalia automatic (Captain Vino) |
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3437
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| droogvan wrote: |
Hemp was widely used for ethanol during WWII it still seems like an obvious choice to me. It can generally thrive without the use of pesticides or herbicides and can be grown on land where corn might not take. There's always the argument that someone could grow marijuana in with a hemp field but its my understanding that this is BS. I've been told by farmers that hemp would cross pollinate and effectively ruin the THC content of marijuana grown anywhere near the vicinity. I'm far from being a botanist so If anybody here can confirm or deny this belief I'm all ears.
I'm not sure how I feel about ruining the marijuana crop though... I've got to think about this and get back to you guys.  |
You would want to go to seed,more oil produced, nasty headache. Read Jack Herer's book "The emperor wears no clothes"
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LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
....Bad Sneakers.... |
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droogvan
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2005
Posts: 258
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Hemp was widely used for ethanol during WWII it still seems like an obvious choice to me. It can generally thrive without the use of pesticides or herbicides and can be grown on land where corn might not take. There's always the argument that someone could grow marijuana in with a hemp field but its my understanding that this is BS. I've been told by farmers that hemp would cross pollinate and effectively ruin the THC content of marijuana grown anywhere near the vicinity. I'm far from being a botanist so If anybody here can confirm or deny this belief I'm all ears.
I'm not sure how I feel about ruining the marijuana crop though... I've got to think about this and get back to you guys.
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89 Westy zetec
Some ol bullshit |
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