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Sigurd
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2006
Posts: 2639
Location: Rockford, IL
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 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| It was close to 0.100", but it's been awhile and I can't remember. |
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deadkombi
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2011
Posts: 112
Location: Perth Western Australia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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These scat rockers are doing my head in. How much did you have to mill off the rocker blocks? I took .080 off mine yesterday and bolted them up last night. The wipe pattern is still above centre. It is closer than it was, but still not where I want it. I also needed to clearance the rocker pedistal a tiny bit .
The ratio has been fairly true with 1.28. |
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Sigurd
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2006
Posts: 2639
Location: Rockford, IL
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| Mine are about 1.3; equating to 0.520" lift. I had the blocks milled down. They are mighty, mighty close now. The side play was not an issue; you just have to play with the shims. The up/down is taxing on this style of rocker. I'll be using something else next time. |
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QRP
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2008
Posts: 1887
Location: NORTH HOLLYWOOD,CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: scat rockers |
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| deadkombi wrote: |
| What was the outcome to your rocker drama? I have just discoverd the same trying to set these up on my 2276. Apparently shims are not needed, but machining the rocker pedestals or rocker blocks to move the rockers closer to the head. That will move the wipe pattern closer to the centre of the valve. Is this the case. Rockers are the same scat 1.25 pro rockers. |
I had to do the same thing with a set of scat 1.25s. |
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deadkombi
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2011
Posts: 112
Location: Perth Western Australia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:38 pm Post subject: scat rockers |
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What was the outcome to your rocker drama? I have just discoverd the same trying to set these up on my 2276. Apparently shims are not needed, but machining the rocker pedestals or rocker blocks to move the rockers closer to the head. That will move the wipe pattern closer to the centre of the valve. Is this the case. Rockers are the same scat 1.25 pro rockers.
Also have heard that the ratio on these is closer to 1.38! |
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Sigurd
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2006
Posts: 2639
Location: Rockford, IL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Right, that's why I brought it up. It's too easy to just cut them and think that because the adjuster is on the pushrod end that you don't have to get a correct length and that's not the case. |
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1432
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2006
Posts: 399
Location: so cal
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| pushrod length does not create correct geometry, correct geometry creates pushrod length |
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Sigurd
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2006
Posts: 2639
Location: Rockford, IL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| vw donvieira wrote: |
| I spoke with Web and they recommend a 1.25:1 rocker sao I bougt the the scat billet rockers witht he adjuster on the pushrod. Tus after having pushrods made I should not need to shim the rockers. VWdon |
Not necessarily true. The lack or presence of shims affects how the rocker tip contacts the lash cap. Take a look at the following picture:
I blued the lash cap and then cycled the motor. The wiped-away rectangular patterns show the places that the rocker pushes on the cap. In the above case, the shim needed to be taken away in order to center that wipe pattern more. Right now, it is too far up and will not be pushing the valve straight up and down the guide.
The other thing with the Scat-style 1.25s is that you have to take into account the adjuster screw itself. Go counterclockwise with it all the way so that the cup is resting against the arm. Now turn it clockwise (in) about 2-3 turns. This is where oiling actually occurs. Oiling does not occur with the screw turned fully counterclockwise.
Both of these issues show that pushrod length and shims ARE still taken into account with Scat rockers. |
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vw donvieira
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 628
Location: stockton, California
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| I spoke with Web and they recommend a 1.25:1 rocker sao I bougt the the scat billet rockers witht he adjuster on the pushrod. Tus after having pushrods made I should not need to shim the rockers. VWdon |
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vw donvieira
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 628
Location: stockton, California
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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So lash caps vs. swivel feet. What down side do lash caps have over not having to shim the rockers up with swivel feet?
Thanks, vwdon |
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Sigurd
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2006
Posts: 2639
Location: Rockford, IL
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| Shimming the rockers is the Ghetto way to set rocker geomerty. I DO NOT use rocker shims on any of my engines. |
Did we ever get an answer as to why this is a bad idea?
Also, just because we have the typical old German mechanic doesn't mean he knows performance. We have the same guy in our town. He's fantastic. He has knowledge and skills for forever....and I don't trust him for a minute with my 1915. I've got the two 30-year-olds in the speed shop with a high-11 Bug for that. |
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vw donvieira
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 628
Location: stockton, California
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Who makes the most durable lash caps?
Thanks, vwdon |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27678
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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That's right, lash caps and regular(stock) adjusters should work fine. No shims, should be cheap and effective.
OR, you can use your ford swivels and no lash caps, but with these you ought to have at least .060 shims under the rocker blocks.
I prefer the porsche type swivels to the ford type, but I have run the ford type in two engines and nothing bad happened, so they work too.
Are fancy swivel adjusters needed with your mild setup? Naw, probably not needed. |
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vw donvieira
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 628
Location: stockton, California
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Yes modok Ihave the ACE German rockers 1.1:1 by Art.
So if I use lash caps can I use the stock German adjusters or will I still need the swivel foot (I actually have the Ford currier)?
Thanks vwdon |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27678
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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I assume ACE rockers are German 1.1:1 on shafts with better retaining clips.
You will not need any shims to use stock rockers, perhaps just lashcaps to get a little more stem height in respect for your highlift cam.
If you add Porsche swivel foot adjusters to these rockers, shims may be needed to make up for how the swivel foot extends the stem height.
This is well known, CB swivels come with .060 shims in the package.
If you use a different kind of rocker, I don't know what will be needed to make them work best. For a DD stock rockers are probably a safer choice. |
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jfats808
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing wrong with old school german engine builders. For performance, I would have someone with more experience dealing with the intricacies of setting up a performance engine. Ive also had good experience with Scat Pro series rockers, 1.25 and 1.4's. Only problem i had ( yesterday) was a broken adjuster cup. IMO would be a good idea to have a few of those on hand for this purpose. Just my opinion on this matter. GL-Jon
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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damicotile
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2004
Posts: 1070
Location: WOODLAND CA.
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 11:30 am Post subject: |
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No shims under my Scat 1.25 rockers either. Got shorter push rods.
You start putting shims under the rockers and then the adjusters hit the stock covers and shave metal which gets into the engine.
That old German has the right idea.
It all about the push rods and geometry.
I ordered a set of HD Alum push rods from aircooled.net but gave them the old measurement and they made them up before I caught my mistake.
had to have another set made. Costly mistake.
I felt like a complete dolt! 
_________________
'73 SB
82x94
W-120 w/ CB light weight lifters
Silicon bronze sleeves
Scat 1.25:1
CB H-Beams
Straight cuts
42x37 Steve Tims
44 IDF's
9.2:1
A-1 Sidewinder coated
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vw donvieira
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 628
Location: stockton, California
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 10:36 am Post subject: |
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What do you suggest?
Thanks vwdon |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15601
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Shimming the rockers is the Ghetto way to set rocker geomerty. I DO NOT use rocker shims on any of my engines.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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vw donvieira
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 628
Location: stockton, California
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 10:30 am Post subject: |
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My builder is "old school" German. For the last 35 years all he has done is Type 1 upright motors. He loves stock motors and doesn't like to mess with the rocker geometry by shimming the rockers. Super old school German to say the least. Doesn't like to change the tried/true design of these motors. Perhaps I'll have him build it to the heads and I'll have Hot Rod Hayes does the rockers. I am going to get dual aluminum taper pushrods cut to length.
Thanks vwdon |
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