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didget69
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Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4942
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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944 transaxle - shorten the torque tube. Get creative with a milling machine & combine the 944 trans with a flywheel clutch housing at trans - then have input shaft from engines/t-box to transmission.
http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/HotRodYJ/...1282040992
bnc
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slalombuggy
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Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9340
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:38 am Post subject: |
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I think a single clutch at the driven tranny would be the easiest setup. Turn the engine flywheels down to mate to CV joints and have 1 flywheel and clutch set up at the input shaft. you could use a cut down engine case to support the shaft/clutch set up and act as a bearing carrier. But like I said before you have to start taking into account your power losses through transmissions, gear boxes etc. then there's the fabrication and machining $$$$$$$$ it would work though.
brad |
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didget69
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Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4942
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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bnc
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TomSimon
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Joined: January 13, 2004
Posts: 753
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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a couple hours worth of machine work there.... 
I've seen that car out on the salt several times, but never peaked under the cowl |
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WickedWagens
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Joined: April 09, 2004
Posts: 190
Location: Carson City, NV
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Here is a setup for bringing 2 1000cc bike motors together for a 2000cc v8. Engines sit side by side, each crank is gear driven to a central crank shaft.
http://bonnevillestreamliner.com/2000cc-v8-engine/
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slalombuggy
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Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9340
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:22 am Post subject: |
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I think the stack would get pretty tall with intakes/carbs and cooling. You'd also be blowing hot air out of the top motor onto the bottom one.
An inline configuration would work best. But I don't know if the small front area of the crank could take the stresses of another motor being run through it.
Another thing to consider is hp losses due to any coupling devices or additional gear boxes. Would all the losses add up to the point where it would eliminte the hp of the additional motor? Figure on the most efficient gearbox eating up at least 10-15hp, thats a 20-30hp loss for 2 boxes almost the output of a single 36er. A single HO 36er might give you the same wheel hp as 2 relatively stock 36ers and all the additional gear required to couple them. Take into account that building a HO 36hp based motor will run you as much money as a 2+ litre 1600 based engine. Unless you are willing to build 2 of them, I don't see any advantage to running 2 motors and overcoming the hp losses incurred in the drive line.
Something to consider. Would be a really cool project though and would love to see it if you go for it.
brad |
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Danpa
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2007
Posts: 1313
Location: Valparaiso, in
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| earthquake wrote: |
OK
I have been thinking about how to tie two motors together, how about this...
Stack the motors over under style, use two cut down flywheels to mount sprockets and chain drive the two motors together, with a short drive shaft to the transaxle. the flywheel at the trans would be mounted in some sort of "torque tube"
I'm tring to do this with out having to use the crank snout to transfer any power. I want to use a VW transaxle to keep weight down and to try to use as many VW parts as possable. The intake manifolds will be interesting but it should not be to bad.
OK, I can tell you are all saying "Is this guy off his Meds" No I just like the weird and unusual.
Casey |
It reminds me of some of the weird stuff I've seen in old Hot Rod magazines from the 50's and 60's, or something the "tractor puller" guys would do.
If you have your heart set on 2 motors, why not do 4 wheel drive with an engine and trans at each end of the car? I think a Vw Fox had a bug style trans in front, so you could incorporate a Fox's steering and linkage. |
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earthquake
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Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 4003
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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OK
I have been thinking about how to tie two motors together, how about this...
Stack the motors over under style, use two cut down flywheels to mount sprockets and chain drive the two motors together, with a short drive shaft to the transaxle. the flywheel at the trans would be mounted in some sort of "torque tube"
I'm tring to do this with out having to use the crank snout to transfer any power. I want to use a VW transaxle to keep weight down and to try to use as many VW parts as possable. The intake manifolds will be interesting but it should not be to bad.
OK, I can tell you are all saying "Is this guy off his Meds" No I just like the weird and unusual.
Casey
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tstracy39
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Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 3295
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| 36hplandspeedracer wrote: |
Curiosity killed the cat. Where is Taco Island ?
Burly |
Taco Island is in my head  Look at the bottom of one of my classifieds for actual location.
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| EverettB wrote: |
| I like your fork. |
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36hplandspeedracer
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Ivins, Utah
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Curiosity killed the cat. Where is Taco Island ?
Burly |
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tstracy39
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Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 3295
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Danpa wrote: |
| spectre6000 wrote: |
Coupler idea:
"Plug" the engines into where the axels come out of the tranny (wouldn't be too hard to make something that would bolt up to an IRS CV axel joint). One would have to be driven by the flywheel side and one by the crank pulley side (so they're going in the same direction). Then you just have to plug what was the input shaft (now output) into the input shaft of a second tranny via another relatively simple coupler.
The VW engine is much wider than it is deep, so you're not adding a lot to the stock width. Additionally, you go from a 4 gear tranny to a bicycle-like 16 speed tranny. It would require a standard-style shifter setup and a mid-engine style shifter setup.
Does that make sense? Here's an ultra-crappy paint sketch.
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With the setup you have here, if both transmissions were in the same gear, the wheels would turn at the same speed as the engines. No gear reduction. Remember that by putting the power to the axle instead of the input shaft, even in 4th the input shaft is turning about 4 times as fast as the engine. Plus I really doubt that driving your pinion shaft by the ring gear would let the first trans live for more than a few feet, if you could even get the car to move at all. |
Also, you'd lose some power by transfering it to significantly more moving parts than are absolutely necessary. This wouldn't be an issue on something like a tractor pull rig, but a landspeed racer needs to be efficient.
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| EverettB wrote: |
| I like your fork. |
Last edited by tstracy39 on Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Danpa
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2007
Posts: 1313
Location: Valparaiso, in
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| spectre6000 wrote: |
Coupler idea:
"Plug" the engines into where the axels come out of the tranny (wouldn't be too hard to make something that would bolt up to an IRS CV axel joint). One would have to be driven by the flywheel side and one by the crank pulley side (so they're going in the same direction). Then you just have to plug what was the input shaft (now output) into the input shaft of a second tranny via another relatively simple coupler.
The VW engine is much wider than it is deep, so you're not adding a lot to the stock width. Additionally, you go from a 4 gear tranny to a bicycle-like 16 speed tranny. It would require a standard-style shifter setup and a mid-engine style shifter setup.
Does that make sense? Here's an ultra-crappy paint sketch.
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With the setup you have here, if both transmissions were in the same gear, the wheels would turn at the same speed as the engines. No gear reduction. Remember that by putting the power to the axle instead of the input shaft, even in 4th the input shaft is turning about 4 times as fast as the engine. Plus I really doubt that driving your pinion shaft by the ring gear would let the first trans live for more than a few feet, if you could even get the car to move at all. |
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36hplandspeedracer
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Ivins, Utah
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Thanx for the translation. It was deperately needed !
Burly |
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anmilsurp
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Joined: May 12, 2010
Posts: 77
Location: Tukwila Washington
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Portuguese to English translation:
"The two engines were mounted 1600 Volkswagen wheelbase and the front was machined across the carcass back in the region where the original clutch and fixing the exchange rate to enable alignment of shafts that had a flange adapted ends and is then connected through a flexible coupling Giubo - used in the drive shaft (drive shaft) of the then FNM 2000 - resulting in an eight-cylinder opposed, placed between the axles, the junta allowed a certain "misalignment and play" between the two engines.
The two machines that were working independently coupled each with their own systems, therefore, was necessary to have balance in functioning, especially with regard to the ignition system, so that the shafts were mounted off by 90 degrees, because it would be possible a spark every ΒΌ turn which provided an excellent balance with great simplicity in adjustment of the engines. The roar of the eight cylinders in a single outlet exhaust, a "nest of snakes", calculated by the "English" was devastating, the first rotation of the motor in public, made at Interlagos, made the small crowd around the car if depart from the back, it was not possible to maintain the integrity of the eardrums with that howling there"
I'm assuming FNM 2000 must be some kind of aircraft. |
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John Moxon 
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Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 14250
Location: Southampton U.K.
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36hplandspeedracer
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Ivins, Utah
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:50 am Post subject: |
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tstracy39, we must read the same publications. Thanx for having the images availble to see again.
Did you notice the thin fiberglass door tops on Emmys bug flexing out with the vacuum? I wonder what he was thinking. What magazine were the photos in? And it is still a swing axle as well !
Thanx again...............
Burly |
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tstracy39
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Location: Seattle, WA
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36hplandspeedracer
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Ivins, Utah
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Somewhere downstairs in a box I have a cut-a-way drawing from Sports Car Graphic(I believe?)of Emersons twin VW motored bug. Hadn't thought about it for years.
Danke......
Burly |
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tstracy39
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 3295
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Coupled VW engines have been done before; the twin VW powered Beetle "Fusca" driven by Emerson Fittipaldi comes to mind. There is also a Doublecab still in existence powered by twin VWs (one of which is upside-down) connected via an elaborate belt and pulley system (no one seems to know if the system ever actually worked). The most failsafe coupling method would be a pressure plate, though I admit I'm talking out my ass here.
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| EverettB wrote: |
| I like your fork. |
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spectre6000
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Joined: April 19, 2009
Posts: 2014
Location: Broomfield, CO
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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I'm chatting about this with a friend and he suggests that having the flywheels like that would cause balance issues. It would also make the car (not a wide wheel base) lean to one side slightly (only enough to be an issue in the event of a turn). His suggestion is to reverse the cam have the engine fire backwards. It would also create a more natural balance (in the same way the four opposed cylinders naturally balance each other) and make for a relatively smooth running car as a bonus. It also brings the flywheels inboard to focus the center of gravity for a better handling car (given the narrow wheel base).
Additionally, this setup would require making a new weight setup for the reverse firing distributor, running both off the same (v distributor, or some fancy electronic ignition setup (I'm not even remotely familiar with whatever rule set we're dealing or not dealing with here so that may be out of bounds).
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