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akokarski
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2122
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 Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:29 am Post subject: |
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$150 for a windshield seal or rear window seal doesn't sound bad after you have truly appreciate fitment, and issues that you don't have to deal with with a bad seal.
I am not a pro, but I know my way around glass. Not sure why trim gives people trouble. All it takes is patience and right technique.
I have ISP's popout f/b seals, they fit great and do not leak. Back window glass went in like clock-work, and seals are nice and not torn. I can understand ripping flaps on the inside by using wrong string or pulling at wrong angle, but you really have to tear the shit out of it to leak. The only thing that I can think of why some would leak and some won't is maybe differences in thickness at the body side of window opening. Maybe lack or presence of headliner on the outer part of the lip?
Anton |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23567
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| PIMPPRIDE wrote: |
I don't have an answer to why other installers have issues with these seals, a original style seal installation with fragile alloy molding is not an easy task for someone who does not know the car and has never done one before
I can only go by reference with the ones I have spoken to on the phone and by the evidence I receive in the seal return
once or twice I have seen the seal defective to the point where no one could correctly install it... but that's not the case were talking about here
on more then one occasion, I have received returned seals that were attempted to be installed by " professional " window installers that know European Cars and have XX amount of years of experience in the business, where the seal is physically torn & damaged due to improper lubrication, improper tool usage, and installation procedure or all the above
allot of times we find the problem most installers have is simply keeping the molding onto the rubber during installation and give up... this is the only reason I believe an installer could not have issue with installing a cal look seal vs. an original style one
Anthony / ISP WEST |
I'd rather wait until you've gota good seal to sell. If, however,you need someone to test, I'll gladly offer my services. I'm not a glass shop, but a DIYer. I've used your cal look seals in the past. I still have a windshield seal I need to send back to you, for you to cut down, as I replaced it with a WCM cal look seal to install the glass.  So far, the rear cal look seal is still in good condition (it's 3 years old; exposed to sun, rain, wind and snow). It looks good. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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vlad01
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 3064
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
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thinking about it, isn't it ironic that the only " window rubber " we currently officially make that doesn't have an issue is for the fastback, and that's pop out seals... wtf are we doing...
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You're helping a brother out, and doing a service to the community, that's what!
LOVE my fastback popout seals..
So, maybe get on the track to making all of them...?
It might be a lot more money than the regular cheap-China no-fit bug-profile leaker/crackers everybody sells,
but I for one would pay a surprising amount for seals that fit like factory...
You would be surprised how much someom=ne would pay for the right stuff.
Look at the fastback popouts.
They were a success, right?
Few people are into fastbacks, even less with popouts.
Think how many windshield seals you could sell,
Maybe 10x as many as fastback popouts, right?
Can i get on the list yet?  |
+1 on paying good money for the right quality parts. Good thing I read this thread as had the current seals on the purchase list. I would gladly wait even a few years for the right seals. Hell I paid over $300 for a pair of late NOS vent windows. The ISP door seals are superb, so I can imagine the window seals when they come on to the market. |
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PIMPPRIDE
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2003
Posts: 879
Location: Carson California
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:47 am Post subject: |
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I don't have an answer to why other installers have issues with these seals, a original style seal installation with fragile alloy molding is not an easy task for someone who does not know the car and has never done one before
I can only go by reference with the ones I have spoken to on the phone and by the evidence I receive in the seal return
once or twice I have seen the seal defective to the point where no one could correctly install it... but that's not the case were talking about here
on more then one occasion, I have received returned seals that were attempted to be installed by " professional " window installers that know European Cars and have XX amount of years of experience in the business, where the seal is physically torn & damaged due to improper lubrication, improper tool usage, and installation procedure or all the above
allot of times we find the problem most installers have is simply keeping the molding onto the rubber during installation and give up... this is the only reason I believe an installer could not have issue with installing a cal look seal vs. an original style one
Anthony / ISP WEST
_________________
facebook = http://www.facebook.com/pages/ISP-WEST-INC/212843163005?ref=nf
twitter = http://twitter.com/ISPWEST |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 36316
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| PIMPPRIDE wrote: |
ill add a little fuel to this thread...
we have a molded corner windshield seal in testing for two years now with no issues, were negotiating the pricing...
I don't want this to be a $150 seal... its a great seal but if it only helps 10-20 people at a high price, its not good, it needs to be in the same price range the current seal is...
All the seals will be made in perfect profile & quality by US @ ISP WEST for all model years and that's what were working on, its just going to take time
Anthony / ISP WEST |
Hopefully not too much time, as I have a near-term need for a good seal that won't leak, and that uses the original metal trim.
Perhaps the "early adopter" crowd would be willing to pay top dollar, and then work on price reductions for later buyers?
The cost for fixing leaks, new headliners, lost labor, etc, make the price differential (at the $150 price point) a bargain compared to the leaky alternatives. |
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luckystiff
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005
Posts: 2252
Location: hickory,nc
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: |
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i'd say if it's doing well with 2 years of testing it's better than pretty much any of the other current offerings.
i appreciate all you guys do Ant but i gotta disagree with one statement. above you said alot of times the leaks are "installer error, amatuer and pro" but if thats the case how do these same amatuers and pros not have the same issue with the cal look rubber? to often subpar product is blamed on installers which is just not true.
i don't know what the figures would be but as i've said in another thread on the subject Steelrubber right here in nc would be a great US source for having QUALITY rubber produced. i've bought stuff from them for my american cars and never a complaint. the facility is about 20 miles from my house and i can tell you it's a top notch operation.
i hate the fact that i'm actually considering using the cal look seal kit i already have(came with the square when i bought it) once the paint fly's here soon because this car is my daily and i don't want to deal with even the possibility of leaks....ken....
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ITMC
Secret Service |
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MOCHABILL
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2008
Posts: 584
Location: BY THE BAY
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| PIMPPRIDE wrote: |
ill add a little fuel to this thread...
we have a molded corner windshield seal in testing for two years now with no issues, were negotiating the pricing...
I don't want this to be a $150 seal... its a great seal but if it only helps 10-20 people at a high price, its not good, it needs to be in the same price range the current seal is...
All the seals will be made in perfect profile & quality by US @ ISP WEST for all model years and that's what were working on, its just going to take time
Anthony / ISP WEST |
Not to be dubious,but we were waiting for a repo tach,didn't work out. I for one would be in line for upgraded seals,hope it pans out. 
_________________
'71 Squareback FI
'07 Passat wagon 2.0
'03 Ranger 4door 4.0 |
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PIMPPRIDE
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2003
Posts: 879
Location: Carson California
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: |
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ill add a little fuel to this thread...
we have a molded corner windshield seal in testing for two years now with no issues, were negotiating the pricing...
I don't want this to be a $150 seal... its a great seal but if it only helps 10-20 people at a high price, its not good, it needs to be in the same price range the current seal is...
All the seals will be made in perfect profile & quality by US @ ISP WEST for all model years and that's what were working on, its just going to take time
Anthony / ISP WEST
_________________
facebook = http://www.facebook.com/pages/ISP-WEST-INC/212843163005?ref=nf
twitter = http://twitter.com/ISPWEST |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23567
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ALLWAGONS wrote: |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Quote: |
thinking about it, isn't it ironic that the only " window rubber " we currently officially make that doesn't have an issue is for the fastback, and that's pop out seals... wtf are we doing...
|
You're helping a brother out, and doing a service to the community, that's what!
LOVE my fastback popout seals..
So, maybe get on the track to making all of them...?
It might be a lot more money than the regular cheap-China no-fit bug-profile leaker/crackers everybody sells,
but I for one would pay a surprising amount for seals that fit like factory...
You would be surprised how much someom=ne would pay for the right stuff.
Look at the fastback popouts.
They were a success, right?
Few people are into fastbacks, even less with popouts.
Think how many windshield seals you could sell,
Maybe 10x as many as fastback popouts, right?
Can i get on the list yet? |
Why not get an NOS sample and send it to China? the Chinese only make what they are told to do. If a sample is not up to specs, have them remake it again. I do business with Chinese factories and their manufacture is as good as you are willing to pay. |
Yeah, front windshield seals would be popular, since they're the same for all but the t-34 body style.
But ALLWAGONS is right, even Ray mentioned that the Chinese will make it as good as needed, they just have to be told to make it to your spec.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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ALLWAGONS
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2000
Posts: 4711
Location: Pasadena CA/DTLA soon China
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
| Quote: |
thinking about it, isn't it ironic that the only " window rubber " we currently officially make that doesn't have an issue is for the fastback, and that's pop out seals... wtf are we doing...
|
You're helping a brother out, and doing a service to the community, that's what!
LOVE my fastback popout seals..
So, maybe get on the track to making all of them...?
It might be a lot more money than the regular cheap-China no-fit bug-profile leaker/crackers everybody sells,
but I for one would pay a surprising amount for seals that fit like factory...
You would be surprised how much someom=ne would pay for the right stuff.
Look at the fastback popouts.
They were a success, right?
Few people are into fastbacks, even less with popouts.
Think how many windshield seals you could sell,
Maybe 10x as many as fastback popouts, right?
Can i get on the list yet? |
Why not get an NOS sample and send it to China? the Chinese only make what they are told to do. If a sample is not up to specs, have them remake it again. I do business with Chinese factories and their manufacture is as good as you are willing to pay.
_________________
I'd be UNSTOPPABLE if not for Law Enforcement and PHYSICS.
I recycle old cars and parts, other than when I rot, that's as Green as I am going to get.
Thanks to my Tesla driving neighbors, I feel more relaxed driving my SUBURBAN and old VW's.
Everything sounds good on paper! |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7846
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
thinking about it, isn't it ironic that the only " window rubber " we currently officially make that doesn't have an issue is for the fastback, and that's pop out seals... wtf are we doing...
|
You're helping a brother out, and doing a service to the community, that's what!
LOVE my fastback popout seals..
So, maybe get on the track to making all of them...?
It might be a lot more money than the regular cheap-China no-fit bug-profile leaker/crackers everybody sells,
but I for one would pay a surprising amount for seals that fit like factory...
You would be surprised how much someom=ne would pay for the right stuff.
Look at the fastback popouts.
They were a success, right?
Few people are into fastbacks, even less with popouts.
Think how many windshield seals you could sell,
Maybe 10x as many as fastback popouts, right?
Can i get on the list yet?
_________________
Bus Motor Build
I have excellent news for the world...
There is no such thing as patina.
It does not exist! |
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MLTIGGER2
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2006
Posts: 1154
Location: Fort Wayne, In
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I liked the cal look rubber for a long time, but I currently like the original look with the chrome. Chrome and all the trim pieces are missing from the newer cars.
_________________
1968 Squareback
1970 Wunderbug Beetle |
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TotalSquare
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2011
Posts: 46
Location: Tucson, AZ
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| PIMPPRIDE wrote: |
ill try to keep this short, to the facts... most of this was said before in previous threads... here... most window rubber sealing issues are due to the installation / installer ( professional or non professional )
all the suppliers mentioned in this thread, provide and sell all the same seals as each other... ( with exception to CIP - not sure what they sell )
I wrote a FAQ about window rubber on eBay back in '07 that has some general info... http://reviews.ebay.com/Window-Rubber-for-Air-Cooled-Volkswagens_W0QQugidZ10000000004885409
Anthony / ISP WEST |
That ebay article was a good read. I have been wondering what "cal look" meant for the longest time, but was too embarrassed to ask .
_________________
73' Squareback, FI |
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PIMPPRIDE
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2003
Posts: 879
Location: Carson California
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MLTIGGER2
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2006
Posts: 1154
Location: Fort Wayne, In
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Just manufacture all the parts and then we will have quality parts for our beloved VW's
_________________
1968 Squareback
1970 Wunderbug Beetle |
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PIMPPRIDE
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2003
Posts: 879
Location: Carson California
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| OhHerrooo wrote: |
hey anthony,
i'm not trying to dog ISP's window rubber, just wanting to have my car not leak when i wash it. would you recommend that i have it taken out and re-installed? the rubber just seems too narrow compared to the stock rubber, it sits inside the cutout in the hatch instead of overlapping it. |
no offence taken, just wanted to give the general refresher on window rubber when I see our name in in a couple of times in a thread... its not ' our manufactured product ' so I can't control it.. an hence ' will not ' take offence to it...
now if you want to piss me off, talk about parts we make... LOL joking of course...
I do believe you need to remove and reinstall the seal... I can check the seal in your car out for you sometime, get with Mike and the crew to bring it by the shop or my place on the weekend if needed...
Anthony / ISP WEST
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twitter = http://twitter.com/ISPWEST |
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OhHerrooo
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2010
Posts: 1291
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| PIMPPRIDE wrote: |
ill try to keep this short, to the facts... most of this was said before in previous threads... here... most window rubber sealing issues are due to the installation / installer ( professional or non professional )
all the suppliers mentioned in this thread, provide and sell all the same seals as each other... ( with exception to CIP - not sure what they sell )
I wrote a FAQ about window rubber on eBay back in '07 that has some general info... http://reviews.ebay.com/Window-Rubber-for-Air-Cooled-Volkswagens_W0QQugidZ10000000004885409
Anthony / ISP WEST |
hey anthony,
i'm not trying to dog ISP's window rubber, just wanting to have my car not leak when i wash it. would you recommend that i have it taken out and re-installed? the rubber just seems too narrow compared to the stock rubber, it sits inside the cutout in the hatch instead of overlapping it.
_________________
'67 Squareback
'69 Squareback
'68 Westfalia
'68 Squareback
OCT3 - Orange County Type 3's
www.evenkeelsurfshapes.com |
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PIMPPRIDE
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2003
Posts: 879
Location: Carson California
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OhHerrooo
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2010
Posts: 1291
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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i'm a little disappointed with my ISP west rear window seal (squareback, w/trim), its way too narrow. it was professionally installed and it leaks in between the window and the hatch every time i wash my car.
does anyone know of a thicker, wider, non-cal rear window seal for a squareback?
_________________
'67 Squareback
'69 Squareback
'68 Westfalia
'68 Squareback
OCT3 - Orange County Type 3's
www.evenkeelsurfshapes.com |
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akokarski
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2122
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| mine is leaking between body and seal |
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