Major disaster with Small Car oil pan upgrade ~ HELP!!

[tschroeder0]

Orin- sorry to hear about your experience and you have handled the blasting by the forum members well.
I personally know of three people who have had the exact same fitment issues with the SC pan and one who was told to remove the plug as you were. He did and realized that this was going to be a problem and avoided disaster. But he was told to do it and he is not a seasoned mechanic, hence the phone call in the first place.
Should you have questioned the no oil pressure, of course, can we all make some really dumb mistakes when we are in the thick of something we dont know that much about and have been told to do something by a pro that we think we can trust, absolutely.
when you pay good money for a product you should get good instructions and a product that fits. Small car makes some great products, but my recollection here and personally is that the oil pan has had issues for a long while.

[Sodo]

Sorry for off-topic,,,, but I thought this 2011 post was run out. Strange that there could be some engines with a plugged port (inside) and some with just a "dummy plug". And that Smallcar had not yet come across an engines where the plug was a galley plug. Good for AKWesty to clarify that on early non-interference engines you cannot remove that plug. Anyway it looks like some good info has been added since I revived it from dead.

Hoping to catch members who knew stuff about the EJ oiling system, or know of modifications. Has anyone re-plumbed those ports for an oil cooler or additional reservoir? I'm more interested in adding another quart to the engine. I know it's sort of the wrong place to add capacity but just trying to get ideas.

_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop, EJ25, cooled filtered (original) gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

All Vanagons should do this:
Add direct starter-to-chassis cable THEN delete ground strap at front transaxle mount.
The best time to do this mod was in 2010. The second best time is TODAY.
If your starter is slow, this is MORE important.

[dobryan]

Yes, I had to clearance my Tom Shields fitting the exact same way. No real problem, it is plenty robust. Just an issue of trying to fit two aftermarket parts together. Thanks for posting this so others do not think they did something wrong when it doesn't fit out of the box. 😀
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[AKWesty]

I have been meaning to post these pictures for a while. I had not come across this thread before and could not believe what I was reading. If you get a small car pan and you have an early noninterference EJ22....Do not remove the PLUG! ( unless you have an oil pressure gauge). Seems like a crap shoot

I have a 91 EJ22 and Tom Shiels thermostat housing. Here is the work you can expect when installing your oil pan.

_________________
84' Westy 2wd
EJ22 - 4spd - Peloquin TBD
GW +1.5 Springs
215/70-16's

www.CatchTheKraken.com

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[syncrodoka]

That's the oil pump.

[Sodo]

Does anybody know what those two large ports are ABOVE the pickup tube? They are outside the oilpan, blocked with 12mm allen plugs. Are those ports for an oil cooler?

_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop, EJ25, cooled filtered (original) gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

All Vanagons should do this:
Add direct starter-to-chassis cable THEN delete ground strap at front transaxle mount.
The best time to do this mod was in 2010. The second best time is TODAY.
If your starter is slow, this is MORE important.

[ftp2leta]

Ben... shut up.
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[J Charlton]

I can't speak to the experiences of others, only mine. I was one of the first to use their bell housing on my suby conversion - there were "teething" problems and I was into V3 before it was all resolved. Through it all, I found Brian and Mao to be available, helpful and thorough. Last year in August, I had a clutch pressure plate fail - Mao got me the parts I needed in Amarillo Texas within 24 hrs - back on the road within 48 hours of breakdown - the SC shortened pan fit my 2.5 fine and I have had no issues with it. I'm adding this to the thread because I just got off the phone with SC - the bracket holding my VSS came loose, sensor touched the rotating magnets, sensor is toast - Mao know exactly whyat I needed and its on its way - I'd use their stuff again - I wish they did a complete selection of stuff for diesel conversions - I'd use it.
_________________
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[AceDanger]

[hforo]

I'm glad that you found this thread before your van melted down! It's really a shame all the stories I've been hearing about SC lately. Not to make this a SC bashing thread, but there is a lot of evidence here that they absolutely should address.

My 2 cents.

[Californio]

Does Small Car have a presence here on the Samba? If so maybe they should chime in. Other reputable vendors (RMW, Burley, Karl M.) don't hesitate to discuss when there's a problem, so should SC. It's pretty clear there is a problem at this point. I would be pissed if I went through what the OP through.

[AceDanger]

My good friend and I have just spend the last few months completing a 2.2 swap. I came to here today to look for advice on a coolant problem and found this thread, read in a ways and realized we had had the EXACT SAME EXPERIENCE. Tried to fit the pan, hit THAT bolt, called small car, talked to Mao who told us "it's nothing, pull it" and we did. The car has been started and ran to warm 3 times and we can't figure out why the coolant system isn't working, thank god it's not because if it had been we'd have drove off.

Looks like i'll be calling SC and having a word

So if it's any consolation, you're experience just saved me my bus, thanks for posting.

[orin salah]

[ftp2leta]

More here.
http://www.benplace.com/SS_oil_pan.htm

Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[Jake de Villiers]

Good to hear that you've got your van up and running again! It sounds like Small Car's typical arrogant attitude to me. They've been getting away with sub-standard parts for a long time because there just weren't many alternatives. Its a good thing that there are more choices now!
_________________
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'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7.5 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com

[Crankey]

well, you also know that this thread will take money out of their future. if that holds any satisfaction for you.

is there enough thickness in the casting to carve a notch with a die grinder for this plug ? sounds like a sloppy casting and a sloppy jig for post casting machine work.

custom fitting a piece like this isn't all that unusual, but they way you describe the fit of the mounting holes around the perimeter is pretty lame.

I think they should do a better job machining their stuff, or provide a fitting disclaimer/warning.

why did you want this oil pan in the first place ?

[orin salah]

Well folks I want to follow up and post some closure to this story. First, as requested earlier in the thread I want to post pictures of the plug and the hole it filled.

Here is a photo of the bottom of the block:

The plug was filling the hole to the left of where the oil pickup tube bolts on. We can all see (obviously now that the engine is removed) that the plug was blocking a port. Here is a photo of the plug:

So go ahead and blast me some more for following the advice of Small Car and not following my instincts or doubting what the supposed experts were telling me, but the end of the matter is that the plug I was told to remove was a drain for the oil pump main galley. So what happened with my van and what was Small Car's response? Read on if you are still interested.

For a number of reasons, my inexperience certainly one of them, I decided to take my van up to Rocky Mountain Westy and have them put a rebuild from CCR in instead of tackling it on my own. They provided the photos and the info that the plug was indeed for the oil pump galley. Basically the oil pickup tube was sucking the oil up from the pan and then it was getting ejected right back into the pan. But, the van now has a "new" motor in it and is running fine.

What happened with Small Car? Well they, of course, denied that they had any responsibility whatsoever in what happened. I agree as much as anyone that in the end it was ME, the guy with the wrench, who holds ultimate responsibility, BUT I would have liked to see some admission that things could have been handled better on their end. They did refund me the cost of the oil pan, which did cover about 25% of the labor charges to have the new motor installed. I would have been happier if they had refunded me my entire purchase, especially since the oil pan probably cost them next to nothing, but at least they did something.

More importantly I would have liked Mao to admit that he had some role to play in what happened instead of pretending like it was all my fault for following his advice. Of course everyone can use their perfect hindsight after the fact to pick apart everything I did wrong, but I can do that myself.

In the end, I am VERY disappointed with the fit of the Small Car pan. It never would have fit on my motor without major modification; grinding away the oil dipstick snout so that it did not hit the thermostat housing and presumably grinding away a spot inside the pan so that it would not hit the oil plug for the oil pump galley. This is not even close to what they claim to be selling. Just look on their website if you want to see how easy they make the installation seem. I am also disappointed with their customer service and lack of willingness to stand behind their own advice.

So the choice is yours. I am sure there are many out there who had great experiences with Small Car, I know some who have, that's why I choose to get the pan from them in the first place. But be aware that there are some 2.2 Subaru motors out there that the pans will NOT fit without a fair amount of modification.

And for goodness sake, if you have a plug like mine, make sure it doesn't go anywhere if you pull it out and don't repeat my mistake!!
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'88 Wolfsburg Vanagon GL Hardtop w/2.2 Subaru

[Mofus]

My heart sank when I read you drove away without oil pressure. Sorry this happened. Although I have a bit of experience I might have done the same thing after talking to SC.

Here is a bigger version of my picture:

I put the cast oil pan on after my stock pan cracked because the dip stick tube support fin was rubbing on the engine mount. SC said, oh yeah, that can happen if you dont grind it down where it touches. Oh well. The cast pan went on fine. I have no idea what that plug you removed was. Good luck with fixing your van.
_________________
'87 Syncro passenger w/ 2.2L Subaru
'10 Passat Wagon (keeps Mrs. Mofus away from my van)

[pjrae]

I just installed their oil pan on my 2.5 a few days ago, but my motor is still on the stand awaiting a clutch....
what I noticed during my install:
The oil pan flange shape is more vague than the stock pan, it does not look like it lines up with either the inner or outer lip of the oil pan gasket surface on the block, rather, it seems to center on the bolt holes and make up it's inexactitude with a generous flange. I believe that the flange is quite possibly (almost definitely?) large enough to clearance the inner lip in order to clear an obtrusive bolt head, especially one that fit under the stock pan?
This has almost achieved certainty in my mind, as the stock pan starts INSIDE the bolt holes, and the smallcar pan (mostly) hollowly encompasses the bolt holes to gain volume.
As with many similar gasketed jobs, tapping (or cleaning the $hit out of!) the mounting threads is often a necessity for good results.

I'm sympathetic of the steep learning curve that "simple, bolt on mods" can bring to bear upon their owners, but I am of the belief that anytime we choose to turn our own wrench we are responsible! Uncertain or in a hurry? 2x as responsible
If you had a mechanic in your employ that called smallcar and received the same advice (they have removed a similar mystery bolt w/out issue) it would end up being the mechanic's responsibility for chancing to remove an unknown quantity, correct? Also, as mentioned, a mechanic would likely have been more motivated to make sure things were copacetic before driving?
I refuse to equate phone advice with guarantees, it's a slippery slope that already has glued too many helpful folks mouths shut!!

Good luck,

Phil
_________________
a.lake - 87 Syncro 2.5L -

[davevickery]