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robcass
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2007
Posts: 29
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 Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: No start, just cranks |
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| I know this is old thread, but I had the same problems. New coil, ground wires, relays, etc. Was not getting spark, ended up being the ECU. |
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Stockurai
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 42
Location: New Britain, CT
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Vwcrewman wrote: |
Shouldn't your Halls plug have ,power ,ground and signal at it . With the key on and a diode protected test light you should get 12V and ground from that plug. If you turn the distributor with the key on does the fuel pump run ?
The last time my truck would not start ,besides being out of gas because of an inoperative fuel gauge ,was because the black box 12 v feed had broken off at the back of the alternator.
Just adding my .02 ,hope it helps. |
which wire coming out of the back of the alternator? the red ones? I've redone those
thanks though!
and yes the fuel pump runs
_________________
1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
| Dogpilot wrote: |
| Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character. |
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16CVs
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 4281
Location: Redwood City, California
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Shouldn't your Halls plug have ,power ,ground and signal at it . With the key on and a diode protected test light you should get 12V and ground from that plug. If you turn the distributor with the key on does the fuel pump run ?
The last time my truck would not start ,besides being out of gas because of an inoperative fuel gauge ,was because the black box 12 v feed had broken off at the back of the alternator.
Just adding my .02 ,hope it helps.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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Stockurai
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 42
Location: New Britain, CT
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| vanjoe wrote: |
| This might be far fetched but have you checked ALL your fuses? You have not mentioned that. I would just pull all of them and inspect them. Also why your there make sure they are all the correct amp fuses. Just trying to help and you never know maybe that will be it. |
its usually the small insignificant things that are the big catastrophe. but yeah, I checked all the fuses and found one that was burnt but it was to the wiper motor. but the wiper motor still worked without it?
I replaced it anyways...
Oh Volkswagen Electronics 
_________________
1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
| Dogpilot wrote: |
| Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character. |
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vanjoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2009
Posts: 606
Location: Santa Maria
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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This might be far fetched but have you checked ALL your fuses? You have not mentioned that. I would just pull all of them and inspect them. Also why your there make sure they are all the correct amp fuses. Just trying to help and you never know maybe that will be it.
_________________
1990 VW Vanagon tin top weekender Carat
1998 Mercedes S420
"Why is there never time to do it right the first time, but there is always time to do it twice?"
"Back to the basics!" |
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Stockurai
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 42
Location: New Britain, CT
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| sbinkley wrote: |
| Call Van-cafe and talk to Pete about renting one of the diagnostic tools. He will send a working ECU as well with the patch wire for the tool. It costs about $45. I found a bad ground on my Oxy sensor using that thing after having replaced lots of parts. It may give you some direction. |
thank you! I've checked all the grounds though, but you never know.
One new distinguishing thing we have come accross that someone MIGHT know the solution to is:
When we probe and test the hall sender, only one bank checks out O.K.
Oh and the main reason for no spark seems to be:
The coil isn't grounding out like its supposed to. But the coil is brand new and checks out O.K.
_________________
1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
| Dogpilot wrote: |
| Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character. |
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sbinkley
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2006
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Call Van-cafe and talk to Pete about renting one of the diagnostic tools. He will send a working ECU as well with the patch wire for the tool. It costs about $45. I found a bad ground on my Oxy sensor using that thing after having replaced lots of parts. It may give you some direction.
_________________
Santa Fe, NM
87 Vanagon Wolfsburg GL, daily driver |
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Stockurai
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 42
Location: New Britain, CT
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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its not a ground problem. redid every single ground.
TLDR: I've rewired the entire vehicle and have replaced the entire ignition system and I still have no spark
Happy birthday to me..
_________________
1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
| Dogpilot wrote: |
| Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character. |
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Stockurai
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 42
Location: New Britain, CT
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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here is the other view of the top left against the firewall
and here is the inside of the OLD cap, and the burn marks? check it out.
_________________
1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
| Dogpilot wrote: |
| Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character. |
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Stockurai
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 42
Location: New Britain, CT
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| Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:07 am Post subject: |
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negative on the ECU being the culprit
is there any way to make for CERTAIN that the hall sender is having a problem besides through the bentley manual tests?
the coil is not flashing with a meter when cranking. does checking the pulsing on the alternator too, also check or verify this?
thanks!
_________________
1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
| Dogpilot wrote: |
| Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character. |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10470
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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If you pull the center wire out of the cap and hold the end near engine metal while someone cranks, you can check for spark bypassing the cap and rotor. If still no spark, the spark problem is upstream and not the cap or rotor.
Replacing parts is often a futile and expensive approach. Diagnosing is better. Many times the problem is not with any part you would buy, no matter how much you were willing to spend on parts.
Mark
| Stockurai wrote: |
Yeah, it was brand new, it wasnt the correct cap or rotor and it wasn't touching. I got the correct ones, hoping that was the obvious problem but it wasn't! nice though! I didnt know it was possible to do that but the PO proved otherwise!
Yes, I've been scrounging around the forums for possible fixes and have purchase a new:
Cap and rotor
ignition
in an effort to fix. right now, waiting to put the ECU in tomorrow and I'll let you guys know! |
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Stockurai
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 42
Location: New Britain, CT
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Perales wrote: |
Just a thought...
That looks like a brand new distributor cap.
Are you sure it is the correct fit?
If by chance it is too tall, the rotor will not touch the contacts and ... no spark. |
Right on again!
Yeah, it was brand new, it wasnt the correct cap or rotor and it wasn't touching. I got the correct ones, hoping that was the obvious problem but it wasn't! nice though! I didnt know it was possible to do that but the PO proved otherwise!
Yes, I've been scrounging around the forums for possible fixes and have purchase a new:
Cap and rotor
ignition
in an effort to fix. right now, waiting to put the ECU in tomorrow and I'll let you guys know!
_________________
1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
| Dogpilot wrote: |
| Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character. |
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strawhouse
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 317
Location: Muskoka, Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Just keep in mind that even if youre getting a spark at the coil but its yellow/orange and it has a very low gap it wont produce enough spark for the distributor or the plugs. It needs to be bright blue/white and a nice arc gap
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Pacifist with a gun |
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Perales
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 2046
Location: Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Just a thought...
That looks like a brand new distributor cap.
Are you sure it is the correct fit?
If by chance it is too tall, the rotor will not touch the contacts and ... no spark.
_________________
-- 1987 Westfalia automatic (Captain Vino) |
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letherer
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Stockurai wrote: |
| Quote: |
| No spark? I would bolt down your coil correctly. I don't know if that's what grounds it, but in your pic, it's not bolted to the frame. |
Sorry, theres a bolt below the coil that is holding it there (hidden from view)
as an extra measure ill bolt it there too! thanks.
and thank you perales for the pic! |
Have you checked for spark at the coil to make sure spark is getting to distributor? I know it's a new coil but who knows also, I would make sure your ignition switch is good, it's a cheap part and easy to change. |
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Stockurai
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 42
Location: New Britain, CT
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| No spark? I would bolt down your coil correctly. I don't know if that's what grounds it, but in your pic, it's not bolted to the frame. |
Sorry, theres a bolt below the coil that is holding it there (hidden from view)
as an extra measure ill bolt it there too! thanks.
and thank you perales for the pic!
_________________
1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
| Dogpilot wrote: |
| Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character. |
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letherer
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2006
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Stockurai wrote: |
yeah I need to do the fuel system next, my main goal was to get this running flawless before conquering that feat.
definitely no spark by the way guys.
| strawhouse wrote: |
| Another option is wait until its getting dark out and get someone to crank over the engine. Get a spray bottle with some water in it and spray down the ignition system and watch for arcing. That has saved me a couple of times when I cant find a leak in the ignition system |
Is this safe? It sounds like it'll work so ill try it anyways tho, thanks! |
No spark? I would bolt down your coil correctly. I don't know if that's what grounds it, but in your pic, it's not bolted to the frame. |
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Perales
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 2046
Location: Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
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for an '87, check your Bentley.
_________________
-- 1987 Westfalia automatic (Captain Vino) |
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Stockurai
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 42
Location: New Britain, CT
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| Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:01 am Post subject: |
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working on checking the ECU with some trial and error
but in the meantime! 
Does anyone have a diagram or a list of where all the grounds are that could be in question?
_________________
1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
| Dogpilot wrote: |
| Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character. |
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Stockurai
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 42
Location: New Britain, CT
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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yeah I need to do the fuel system next, my main goal was to get this running flawless before conquering that feat.
definitely no spark by the way guys.
| strawhouse wrote: |
| Another option is wait until its getting dark out and get someone to crank over the engine. Get a spray bottle with some water in it and spray down the ignition system and watch for arcing. That has saved me a couple of times when I cant find a leak in the ignition system |
Is this safe? It sounds like it'll work so ill try it anyways tho, thanks!
_________________
1990 Vanagon Transporter 2.1L [the fridge] - Daily Driver for College Commuting
| Dogpilot wrote: |
| Besides, Yuppies cannot run to a dealership and give a credit card and just buy one. You have to breath life into it, kind of like an Egyptian afterlife thing. Once you resurrect it, it becomes your buddy. It is unusual and has character. |
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