The official thread about: 2-piece 356 engines

[Richard Roth]

Here is a photo of my magnesium 1953 1500S case.
It is a dealer warranty replacement case, hence the KD and the star stamping prior to the engine serial number.

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The problem with reality is that there's no background music !

1966 Empi GTV MKIV
1954 Kabriolett Beetle
1953 Porsche 356 1500S
1957 Cable brake standard model
1962 cable brake standard model
1956 23 window Samba
1960 Austin Healey 3000
1961 Corvair Greenbrier

[SplitPersonality]

Nice work Mr Ruiz!

A lot of good inputs here, most importantly the pictures of original engines...very well. The first proven, original P-engine with a mag case is mid-February 1951 - indicating that the last 4-digit cars had mag cases and also that Porsche changed when VW changed from alu to magnesium in late January 1951. Very well...

Now - on to another topic...part-numbering.

The 369-engine (std 1100 ccm) was introduced as the "first mainstream 2-piece P-engine"....and the 369 part numbers are all over it.

So - my question/topic....did the 369 part number last up to the 3-piece case on all parts that was NOT affected by the change to 1300...to S....to 1500?

To illustrate - I have a 1300S engine (74mm bore, 74,5 stroke), yet for example the rocker-assembly is numbered 369....

Do you know when/how the individual part numbers changed on the various 2-piece variants?

Picture of my rockers-assemblies on the 1300S engine:

[Mr. Okrasa]

[ensys]

Mr.Okrasa:

May one inquire as to the rockers and cam you would typically use in such a build?

Just curious.
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Keep 'em flying...

S.J.Szabo

[Suboval]

What are the numbers cast into the side of the generator stand?
They should look something like this:

See: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=380362
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It all works on paper.

There's two things we learn from history:
1.) History repeats itself.
2.) We don't learn from history.

[Unobtanium-inc]

I picked up a blank case engine earlier this year, built to Super specs with the fat daddy carbs. Cool engine, it sold quickly to a friend of mine who needed it for a 53 Coupe.

[Mr. Okrasa]

I just completed this 1954 1300cc longblock for Chris S. for his sunroof Pre-A. Enjoy photos! Mr. Okrasa

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See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/

1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint

Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE

VW www.Okrasa.com

[SplitPersonality]

52deelux:
I got so excited by this info... could you post a picture of your engine block please?

Or pm/mail... Very interesting!

[SplitPersonality]

Wow - thanks for a lot of valuable inputs!

A couple of points/conclusions:

- The change from "angle style" casting to "curved casting" on the 25HP blocks occured sometime mid-53, as opposed to "believed knowledge" of this happening together with the 25-to-30/36 change at the end of 53. Very interesting! - I guess we need to get a thread going over in the Oval-forum in order to picture and define exactly when this change happened...

billmetric;
Yes indeed - you point to a very good point/conclusion. I support it and believe it is a valid conclusion....this early 52 car has had its block replaced and restamped at some point.

splitvws:
Wow - nice block...not too far from my own car....do you want to sell that block?

52 deelux:
Extremely important info!!! If what you are posting is true....we (you) have just answered one of my key questions... Your engine is from around 10th of March 1951...7 weeks after VW swapped from alu to mag...and if your engine is authentic...then it prooves that Porsche did not stockpile alu-cases and indeed did the change when VW did it.... It even shows that 4-digit cars made after Jan 51 has mag cases...I believe "everybody" thought all 4-digit cars had alu cases....WOW...thanks for the info. One important thing: Could you give us the casting date for your block on the side of the generator stand??? Thanks a lot in forehand!!

jjjjack:
Thanks for all the hard work and good info....again - goes to show that VW changed the casting in mid-53, with the last half year of 25hp blocks having "curved style"-casting.

turkis-deluxe;
You have a very early VW mag case...the change occured with engine number -1-0272061 on 19th Jan 1951.

[turkis-deluxe]

I typically wouldn't post in this forum but since I picked up this motor today I am!! Short block only so can't answer too many questions but if anyone needs any case specific info let me know.

Motor# comes up as a January 51.

[jjjjack]

So I did a little cleanup and tagging of my images of early engines. Here is a set of '53 engines sorted by serial number. You can see that the earlier engines have the "angle type" casting and later you begin to see the "curved type" casting. The last two images are of an early 1500S, so the casting is consistent with the earlier form.

Of course, this is a small sample, so you can't really say anything definitive. But it looks like the casting changed during '53 model year production. All of my '54 images are "curved type" castings.

Would be nice to have a larger set to compare!
_________________
Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
IG:j.stenner

[52 deelux]

I have Porsche crankcase P 10053, which is a 1100 block. This was originally from a model 50 car.

I can confirm it is Electron/Mag.

Personally, I think Porsches' use of material in there cases ran concurrently with VW, so only Gmunds and early model 50's got the Aluminium case.
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52 BD Deluxe
57 Ghia golde
54 Ragtop

[8287111]

All Porsche 2-piece cases are modified Volkswagen cases.

[L378]

[splitvws]

52 1300 case

[billmetric]

replacement 25hp cases after 1953 were essentially 36hp castings with the smaller 25hp cylinder bores, I have seen many NOS "replacement" 25hp cases with the 36hp style serial number casting, I would suspect that the "totally untouched original car" has a restamped original engine number on a replacement case, in many places prior to the standard VIN number system cars were titled and registered to the engine number which would require a replacement engine to be stamped with the old number,

pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate: William of Ockham
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There is an idea of a Billmetric; some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable... I simply am not there...

[L378]

I found 356 forum user Jack Stenner's (hope he doesn't mind) pre-purchase photo album. Here's a shot from his photo album.

http://visuals.jigglingwhisker.com/gallery2/automobiles/porsche/pre-purchase/IMG_0469.jpg.html

As you can see just slightly above the serial # I provided earlier. So, my question would be when did Porsche stop buying VW engines and start casting their own? Was it after the transition to the A?

As to VW - My guess is that the curve was most likely started with the introduction of the 36hp at the end of 53. I'd have to look for engine photos from that time period to see the tail end of 25 hp production and the start of 36 hp. Again, I I have no 25 hp with the curved area. Could be wrong.

[SplitPersonality]

OK...I went through some engines in the barn here..

The change in the casting in this area must occur sometime during 1953...and we need more pictures of original VW engines from this era..

No doubt, the "curved type" was introduced during the last year of 25hp production, so there is both styles on a 25hp.

December-1952 Type 1 Zwitter engine;

December-1953 Type 2 engine (last 25hp T2 engine was no: 20-0695356):

[SplitPersonality]

More...

So - two key questions we are trying to adress in this thread so far:

- When did the VW casting change from "angle type" to "curved type" in the area around the engine number?
- When did Porsche change from alu case to magnesium case?

Just to show what an aluminum case looks like..in the area we are discussing, here is a picture of a June-1950 engine:

[SplitPersonality]

Thanks!

This block above is a 1954 number for a 1500 engine.... Very odd that it is a "angle type" number area...it would be really interesting if Ruiz could post the date code of this block on here.