New CB camshaft: 2228 any one tried it yet?

[SixVolt]

[Alstrup]

CB 2280, which you can also get from ACN. The 2228 is a fuel miser cam. You will not get much benefit from it in a bus. Then its better to take advantage of the slightly better power from the 2280. - Remember to up the CR a bit.

[SixVolt]

Putting this here rather than starting a new thread as it relates to the 2228 cam.

Assume aluminum block engine 1600 with 85.5 pistons and SP stock heads, stock rocker shafts and valves, SP manifold and a 30/31 Brosol carb in an empty '59 panel bus with big nut tranny and reduction gear boxes.

Given that I have limited knowledge of engine builds and someone competent will be doing the assembly, how would the Eagle 2228 from CB PReformance https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2228.htm compare to the Engle W-90 cam from aircooled.net https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Engle-W90-Type-1-Camshaft-1-1-or-1-25-Rockers-p/e6090.htm

And yes, I know many will want to say build bigger, but I'm just trying to get an answer to this question for now so I can have as much information as possible.

Thank you in advance and appreciate these with knowledge of these cams weighing in.

[FreeBug]

Well , I'm there... I took it all apart, you were right, the throttles were well into the progression slot (no holes, a vertical slot), I backed them off till I was out of the slot, probably ended up with the slot just visible from underneath, after synching at 600 rpm.

I guess I now need to drill a small hole in the throttle plate, if the idle is too low.

The float levels seemed ok, I left them as they were, have some fine-tuning reserve there.

I put some knobs on the idle fuel screws, now I can adjust them, and now the engine responds (at 600 rpm idle). Phew.

Driving was nice, but feels like I could step up the idle jets a half-size, say, to 52.5.

Now I really should set up the wide-band, maybe tomorrow.

[FreeBug]

Well , I'm there... I took it all apart, you were right, the throttles were well into the progression slot (no holes, a vertical slot), I backed them off till I was out of the slot, probably ended up with the slot just visible from underneath, after synching at 600 rpm.

I guess I now need to drill a small hole in the throttle plate, if the idle is too low.

The float levels seemed ok, I left them as they were, have some fine-tuning reserve there.

I put some knobs on the idle fuel screws, now I can adjust them, and now the engine responds (at 600 rpm idle). Phew.

Driving was nice, but feels like I could step up the idle jets a half-size, say, to 52.5.

Now I really should set up the wide-band, maybe tomorrow.

[FreeBug]

At what point do you drill a small hole in the throttle plate to reduce vacuum? Not that I think I'm there yet, will check all the above tomorrow. thanks.

[FreeBug]

So, you think it's running off the progression circuits? I really think the throttle plates are almost closed, running at 650 rpm, with 7.5° BTDC.

I checked for dribbling from the mains, or accelerator pump: none

I wonder if the idle screws aren't seating...

you're right, though, the fuel has to be coming from somewhere!

I'll check the fuel bowl levels, compare L and R floats, maybe lower them a bit.

Another thing: I remember the solex handbook mentions starting with an air metering jet 60 larger than the main jet, should't I be starting off with a 190 air? Seeing as I have to redo the jetting from scratch...


And another thing: I've been used to Type 3 and Bus and Transporter PDSITs, but almost all of those had full-load enrichment "power jets", and the CB 34s don't. That would allow for better part-throttle economy, I'm sure...

I wish they were more like type 3 PDSITs( for ease of tuning) but I'm glad they're not as complicated as the Type 4 ones!!

Having said that, I'm not sure what size air jet to use as a base starting point, in order to start trying main jets... any ideas? Thanks

[Alstrup]

You may need to back the timing down a bit to get the throttle plate closer to the progression holes. That is most likely why you do not get any reaction on the idle mix screw.
If that is not the case, you may have a too high float height. I do not remember the desired height off hand. But check.

T

[FreeBug]

Now this is weird... I can screw in the idle fuel screws all the way in, no stall.

And I know the throttle plates are good, no vacuum from distributor outlet at idle, kicks in just off idle..

I guess I'll take them apart and have a look... I sure got my 300$ worth!!

[FreeBug]

Funny start to the day. It started up great, but the when I took off, the throttle stuck open. I drove my little route full throttle till the first area I could pull off. To negociate turns, I would kill it with the key.... on and off.

I figured it was the linkage, but in fact, it was a PITA carb, the shaft wich leaves the automatic choke assembly was seized. Took a while to sort out.

Next the linkage, lots of slop to take out of the pivot shaft. Almost comical. Almost.

Needed an extra return spring, the cable is presenting too much drag

Now, runs ok, smooth throttle operation, consistent flows through the carbs at different rpms, maybe not around 1300 rpm, though. Hard to get that out.

A little hesitation around 1200-1300, and doesn't seem to like the extra advance of the vaccuum cannister. Now it's at 10°idle, 30° total.

I have yet to change the mains, but found the airs are also 130.

I'll pull a plug tomorrow or monday, have a look. Also curious about doing a compression test. Used to be 11 bar.

[FreeBug]

I felt it! It was generally nicer to drive, especially driving up! Sorry if I wasn't clear, it was really nice!

The torque peak seems higher, and thus the engine seems more eager, always wanting to climb. Sorta like a Golf engine. The FK-65,after torque peak, just seemed to want to make more noise, when you revved it. Not much going on otherwise.

It's just that at say 1/4 throttle, it rumbles a bit, and I'm pretty sure it's the carb sync at part opening. it all needs attention. The slop in the linkage axle is horrendous!

I haven't even been able to touch the idle fuel much, hard to access the screws... I have just 1 Type 3 adjusting screw with knob, neeed to source another one, or make a pair.

And, the mains are probably rich, I was thinking of trying a 122.5 first, and seeing where that leads me...

I think I have one spare set of airs, 145 I think. Really need to set up the wideband.

I'm just using the CB airfilters for now, and it isn't even that bad with the noise, none of the low-rpm dreaded overlap BUUUUUUUUUURP.

[Alstrup]

The loss of some upper end power was expected. But I´m sure that once you get the bugs sorted out you will discover that thew engine actually pull better numbers down low (than the FK65) You just dont feel it, because the power comes on so low that it is more smooth.

T

[FreeBug]

So far so good, I drove it home for the first time this evening.

It was nice! smooth from idle on up, not too much loss in power in the lower rpm, a little less on top, obviously, but not sure how much less yet.

going from 50 mph to 75 it's not as zippy as the FK, but mid-range and upper end feel better than the 2280.

at 75 head temps never went over (or reached, in fact) 300°F.

Still need to work out probs with the pdsit 34 linkage cb provided.. it's not as good as stock type III.

Still need to work on jetting, I'm running what they came with, 30 mains, 50 idles, I forget the airs.

I'm running my old distributor, prolly needs some tuning.

We'll see about mileage....

Thanks to everyone who helped... Well, Alstrup, really!!!

[Alstrup]

Waterboxer.

Freebug. Your issues are well known with the fk65 cam. But half of it is most likely carb/ignition related though.

Since youre taking the engine apart anyway, I could push you in the right direction. But I will need to know the rest of the set up. These smaller engines are rather sensetive to changes. And sometimes less is better than more
While cold start enrichment is nice to have when its really cold, you should be able to live with out it. (Assuming it is a summer vehichle)

If you want me to take a look at your set up, send me a mail or a PM with the info.

T

[gooser]

what does wbx mean?

[drumbum68]

Seems like it might be a good WBX cam.

[FreeBug]

Oh, and though the exhaust duration is 224°, the intake is 233°. It's a dual-pattern cam.... neat!

[FreeBug]

I'm going to try it. My 1745 is acting up, had some probs my last outing on autobahn.... valve train related probs.

I'm currently running an FK-65, and have always been unhappy with how hard the torque comes on, and a hesitation in transition from idle. It's lazy at off-idle, then comes on strong, just as the clutch comes out, not a pleasant driving experience in stop-and-go traffic. I've fiddled with timing and idle jets, etc.. I really think the problem is related to dilution through too much overlap.

This cam (2228) should help. I will be sacrificing on top, as the valve simply will no longer lift high and long enough for me to still get the filling I'm now getting at 5000+ rpm, but the dilution of the incoming mix should be reduced at low rpm.

the IVC on the 2228 is 48° ABDC, on the FK-65 it's 46° ABDC, so I'm either going to leave compression as it is, at 8.75:1, or do a light flycut to clean up the surface and bring C/R to 9:1.

I'm using 40 Kads, will switch to 34 dual Solexes, I need the chokes. I will step up to a 28mm venturi, but I doubt the flow will match the Kads.

It's the age of downsizing...

Hope to re-use the rest, bottom end, etc..

If I didn't allready have the (lightened) flywheel and clutch and crank balanced, I would switch to heavy 180 mm flywheel..next project!

Any thoughts are welcome, and I will try to post results.

[Alstrup]

[mark tucker]

hey that will never run the valves are never closed at the same time so it cant get no compression, wont it bend a valve? or is this for a 3stroke motor?? had ya going for a sec .