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Desertbusman
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Joined: June 03, 2005
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Location: Arizona
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 Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| vamram wrote: |
| To be honest - I have the TDC help bolt but didn't use it. I went w/checking that the correct valves rocked or were closed when the pulley was at what I believed to be TDC for the #1. |
What you describe would have gotten you in the general TDC ball park. But it wouldn't get to an actual accurate TDC. You still need to use the TDC tool, OR have a degree pulley, Or know exactly what the notch or notches are on a stock pulley. The last one, the notches, is where you can't guess. Just in the last couple days someone was telling what a notch was in a picture and was totally and out to lunch and wrong.
But you might have ended up with it good, so that's good. With a heavy bus the timing is much more critical than with a bug.
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vamram 
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Shoot, I don't remember the thickness of the shim, but I only used one. I figured that was a better solution than beating the crap out of the tin.
To be honest - I have the TDC help bolt but didn't use it. I went w/checking that the correct valves rocked or were closed when the pulley was at what I believed to be TDC for the #1. Seemed to work well, the car ran like a charm since then once I timed it and all.
BTW --- I sold the '64 Bug (the one w/the aftermarket pulley) yesterday so I'm down to "just" my '72 Super for now! Sad to see it go, but I needed to clear space and was spending too much $$$ keeping 2 cars up and running and improving them, was getting to be too much for us w/1 kid in college, saving for a 2nd and life expenses....course, the wife had something that decision as well... 
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Desertbusman
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Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Glad you got good results. How did the TDC tool and all that work out?
So you shimmed the pulley further out on the crankshaft? And not just in original tight contact against the slinger and gears inside.
Actually everytime I have put the aftermarket aluminum pulleys on they have rubbed against the tin and made that big racket also. But in all cases it was just a matter of moving the tin in closer to the case to solve it. But that entails the good old hammer adjustments and reshaping the tin in the right spots.
Do you remember how thick the shim was? I'm having a small alignment problem now due to another new engine mod.
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vamram
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 6:14 am Post subject: FIX |
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Just to close off the post in case others hit it, I picked up pulley shims from CB performance. I only needed 1 to eliminate rubbing against the pulley tin.
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"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
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“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
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'75 Super Le Grande...languishing since 2022.
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vamram
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| Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:17 am Post subject: Replaced Pulley... |
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Actually ended up putting it in my '64. Looks good - but makes a hell of a racket rubbing against the pulley tin at the bottom. I'm going to try hammering it out today.
As for the '72 Super - I have a pertronix flame thrower in there, timed all good, w/a german solex 34pict-3.
BTW Desertbusman - thanks for Amazon link, I bought the TDC tool.
_________________
"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...languishing since 2022.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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vamram
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Haven't swapped the pulley yet. One of the posts to screw down the Pertronix ignitor plate busted clean off at the welds.  Wonderful. As if it had never been welded at the factory.
So....i'm back to the uh-oh-9 from my parts box, and decided to park the bug and fix the front-end shimmy for now. I'm waiting for the new ball joints to arrive to finish the job before tackling the pulley.
_________________
"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...languishing since 2022.
Click to view image
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williamM
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Location: southwest Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:28 am Post subject: tool |
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Best TDC answer yet!!!
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Desertbusman
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Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| vamram wrote: |
| Do you have a link for the TDC-finding tool? |
Here is the type of tool that you can use. Seems like Amazon sells quite a few different brands and designs. I've never bought one since I made one from a spark plug and a thumb screw. http://www.amazon.com/Competition-Cams-4795-Center-Bolt-Style/dp/B000CIOA0Q/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_img_y
Keep in mind that the tool is only good providing that you use it correctly. Here's how-
- Put it in #1 plug hole with the stop screwed most of the way out.
- Turn the crank back and forth thru the expected/estimated TDC range with the piston at the top of the stroke.
- Turn the stop in carefully until it just slightly contacts the piston as you rock the crank back and forth.
- Rotate the crank a few degrees in either direction to pull the piston inward.
- Screw the stop inward a couple turns.
- Carefully rotate the crank to extend the piston outward until it lightly but firmly contacts the piston.
- Accurately mark the pulley at the case parting line.
- Rotate the crank in the opposite direction almost a full revolution until the piston again contacts the stop with the same light firmness.
- Again mark the pulley at the case parting line.
- Carefully put your new accurate TDC mark on the pulley exactly 1/2 way between your 2 stop marks. Bingo!
A Note Of Caution: When you turn the crank CCW and if the distributor is removed the drive gear is apt to walk up the tooth engagement and jump a tooth. Except for finding this TDC and particularly with a T-1 engine it's wise to be in the habit of only turning the crank CW. Numerous reasons.
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vamram
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:55 am Post subject: |
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I haven't put it on yet cause i'm chicken. Never done it before and don't want to screw it up. I plan on following the Bentley manual instructions for changing it w/the engine IN the car....
Do you have a link for the TDC-finding tool?
_________________
"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...languishing since 2022.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Desertbusman
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Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| vamram wrote: |
| I've got a degree pulley for the car, just haven't put it on yet. I've used one of the degree pulley paper templates too on my '64. Maybe i'll try that here first? |
If you have one why havn't you put it on yet? Just go ahead and do it if you really want to time your engine. 
Next- Forget about the paper template. All it will do is get you fhe 30* from some unknown assumed zero degrees location. The end point obviously is no more accurate than the starting point.
BTW, if no degree pulley then there is a $10 piston stop tool for the spark plug hole that you can use to accurately find the exact TDC. Providing the special proceedure is closely followed.
If you do have a degree pulley to put on it then double check the bolt length. Some aluminum pulleys require a longer crankshaft bolt.
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airschooled
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Joined: April 04, 2012
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Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| vamram wrote: |
Temporarily? Why not just leave the degree pulley on?  |
If it's a sunday afternoon and no local parts houses are open, so you borrow one from a friend but (s)he demands it back that night! 
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vamram
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Temporarily? Why not just leave the degree pulley on?
_________________
"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...languishing since 2022.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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busdaddy
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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It usually takes 10 minutes to pop your pulley off and slip that degree wheel on temporarily, nothing better than positive engagement with the crank key to tell you exactly where the marks should be.
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vamram
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Location: NOVA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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I've got a degree pulley for the car, just haven't put it on yet. I've used one of the degree pulley paper templates too on my '64. Maybe i'll try that here first?
_________________
"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...languishing since 2022.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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busdaddy
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Desertbusman wrote: |
| vamram wrote: |
I found TDC by using the pencil trick in the #1 cylinder
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So then you might be at least within 6 or 8 degrees of the REAL TDC. Don't count on in being any more accurate that that. Unless your pulley has the evasive dimple that very few had (I've never seen one) you need to get a little (lot) more sophisticated in how you determine it. |
Agreed, got any friends you can borrow a degree pulley from?, put that on at TDC and carefully slide it off, then install yours and make a mark if what's on there now doesn't line up (a mark at 32 using the same procedure wouldn't hurt either ).
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Desertbusman
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| vamram wrote: |
I found TDC by using the pencil trick in the #1 cylinder
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So then you might be at least within 6 or 8 degrees of the REAL TDC. Don't count on in being any more accurate that that. Unless your pulley has the evasive dimple that very few had (I've never seen one) you need to get a little (lot) more sophisticated in how you determine it.
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vamram
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I know it's bus forum, I got caught up in it because the original issue mirrored what I was experiencing on the bug. Didn't mean to hijack it...just sort of evolved...and y'all are very welcoming!
Anyway - it's a stock steel pulley w/a single notch. I found TDC by using the pencil trick in the #1 cylinder and matching where it was to the notch on the pulley and the #1 location on the distributor.
_________________
"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...languishing since 2022.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Desertbusman
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Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Timely! |
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So this is on a '72 super beetle and not a bus?  That's OK since there are more bus people that know how to time it right than there are bug people.
| vamram wrote: |
| it took me a while to find TDC, |
Since it's evidently a bug motor you can go a tad more advanced on the timing. But just stick to 30 degrees BTDC Max. to be safe. Now for the big question- this timing mark, what is it and where is it? Evidently a notch on the pulley if it's a stock steel pulley. But which notch and why do you think it's actually at the one and only TDC?
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busdaddy
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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Set your timing light to 28 and watch the mark on the pulley as you rev, keep increasing the RPM until the mark stops advancing, increase the RPM some more just to confirm it doesn't want to advance any more, the timing mark should be at the case split when it stops advancing. If it's short let go of the throttle and twist the distributor a little bit CCW when viewed from the top and try it again (watch out for the fan belt), if it goes past twist CW, keep doing fine adjustments until it stops at the mark and make sure the dial on the back of the timing light didn't get bumped, then tighten the distributor nut (not so much that it bends the clamp please) and try it one last time to confirm. Then hook the hose back up.
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vamram
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Colin - Heroin rave? Yikes. Sounds like i'll be catching him at the door at 30-32 degrees since he's an SVDA rather than bothering to wait for him to get next door (to 35? 38? etc). Whereas the others suggest the heroin rave might not be so bad....now i'm really confused. 
_________________
"Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition
to put moral chains upon their own appetites. -Edmund Burke
“If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.”
Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...languishing since 2022.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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