| Author |
Message |
begood56vw
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2006
Posts: 301
|
 Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:48 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| mikedjames wrote: |
Borrowing the schematic that started the thread and re-drawing for the case where the thermostat switch grounds the connection :
If the light comes on dim straight away you have probably connected it in series with the relay coil.
You need to go back to the beginning.
Pull off all the wires except the 85/86 relay coil connection. When you short the thermostat switch the relay should click.
Then connect the 30 connection to the fused link from the battery and check the fan comes on when you touch its wire to the 30 terminal on the relay. Then put the fan connection on 87. Check it starts when you short the thermostat switch.
Then connect the on/off light switch to the 87 terminal as well.
The on/off llight should come on when the fan comes on.
Depending on where your cooler is it may not need the fan. I run a 12 plate (EMPI 24 plate) cooler in an air scoop under my bus and it does not need a fan. Just an oil bypass thermostat valve for most days. |
Well I wired my system as mr mikedjames, suggested and it's doing the same thing. The light is on ever so lightly and after about 10 miles in the freeway it lights up pretty good. At least I know the cooling fan is coming on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
mikedjames
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012
Posts: 3317
Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Borrowing the schematic that started the thread and re-drawing for the case where the thermostat switch grounds the connection :
If the light comes on dim straight away you have probably connected it in series with the relay coil.
You need to go back to the beginning.
Pull off all the wires except the 85/86 relay coil connection. When you short the thermostat switch the relay should click.
Then connect the 30 connection to the fused link from the battery and check the fan comes on when you touch its wire to the 30 terminal on the relay. Then put the fan connection on 87. Check it starts when you short the thermostat switch.
Then connect the on/off light switch to the 87 terminal as well.
The on/off llight should come on when the fan comes on.
Depending on where your cooler is it may not need the fan. I run a 12 plate (EMPI 24 plate) cooler in an air scoop under my bus and it does not need a fan. Just an oil bypass thermostat valve for most days.
_________________
Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
begood56vw
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2006
Posts: 301
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mr. Dgzas, I wired up my cooler and relay identical as the drawing you provided and when I began driving the fasty the indicator light is on but very dim. Not sure what's going on it never lite up bright just on all the way into work about 19 miles. Can you it someone provide some advised??? Please and thank you in advance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20807
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ellis' Bug wrote: |
Sorry guys but I'm a little electrically challenged. I have one side of the t-stat grounded..... and my fan isn't coming on.
Can someone re-do the drawing above so that it is correct...... or is it already correct? |
If one side of t-stat is grounded, the power to operate relay will come from ignition switch to relay (winding) then to t-stat technically all your doing is reversing direction of current flow (sources) through relay winding, its not rocket science its just reversed direction....
IF you want fan to cone on or go off when key is off/on wire relay winding to a supply controlled by key...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dgsaz
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2008
Posts: 584
Location: Phoenix / San Diego
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ellis' Bug wrote: |
Sorry guys but I'm a little electrically challenged. I have one side of the t-stat grounded..... and my fan isn't coming on.
Can someone re-do the drawing above so that it is correct...... or is it already correct? |
The drawing as shown is how I have my set up wired.
Power comes from the keyed source, when the thermo switch reaches 180 degrees the switch closes and allows the current to pass through and on to the relay.
When the power reaches the relay it sends current out via the 87 terminal.
The circuit at 85 is basicly the control wiring and the 87 is the power to the
fan.
The power for the fan originates at the battery, via terminal 30 rather than the keyed power source.
This assumes you are using a relay.
dgsaz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ellis' Bug
Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2006
Posts: 650
Location: Phoenix
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry guys but I'm a little electrically challenged. I have one side of the t-stat grounded..... and my fan isn't coming on.
Can someone re-do the drawing above so that it is correct...... or is it already correct?
_________________
74 Super drag car
63 Bus, work in progress
65 Bug project
63/64 Ragtop
2006 Beck 356 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dgsaz
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2008
Posts: 584
Location: Phoenix / San Diego
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| risk wrote: |
| 85 should be ground and 86 is trigger from your thermostat... try it that way and I bet the fan comes on. |
Ok, I finally got around to troubleshooting the wiring. When I split the relay and took a good look at the internals I realized that the ground from the 86 terminal was run to the thermo switch and the 85 terminal was running to ground.
If I would have followed my own diagram it would have worked, but noooo....
I write this off to the mirror image when the relay is split. Right is left and left is right. That and I'm a part time dyslectic just a pinch of adult ADD.
Tested the new set up with a jumper at the thermo switch and both the fan and indicator light work.
Now all I need is a good blast up the I-5 and see what happens when I pass 180 degrees.
Better late that never.
dgsaz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2812
Location: The World's Motor Capital
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Try this:
Good luck, Mondshine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20807
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jason wrote: |
| Dale you are correct, key does not not actuate fan. I prefer not having extra hot wires all over. I also don't see a problem with the fan on after the car is off, my new car does it. |
And the cooling fan conversion I put on my JEEP specifically has relay (fan) controlled with ignition switch..... Go Figure....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jason
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002
Posts: 3462
Location: Garage
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Also make sure your fuse is as close as possible to the battery. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jason
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002
Posts: 3462
Location: Garage
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dale you are correct, key does not not actuate fan. I prefer not having extra hot wires all over. I also don't see a problem with the fan on after the car is off, my new car does it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20807
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:45 am Post subject: Re: Wiring Diagram for Oil Cooler Fan |
|
|
| dgsaz wrote: |
Hello all,
Would you have a look at my wiring diagram for an oil cooler fan with a relay and an in-line thermostat switch.
As my oil temp has yet to go much over 180 degrees I'm not sure if it's wired right or it has never gotten hot enough to turn on the fan.
I'm thinking about hitting the t-stat switch with a hot air gun and see if that will cause the fan and indicator light to come on. Then on the other hand it could be wired wrong.
Here's how I have it wired now. Right or wrong, or just not hot enough yet?
Thanks for looking.
dgsaz
|
Actually T-stat should be on out put side of cooler.... IF cooler is doing its job of cooling oil with out fan running then t-stat does not need to trigger fan into coming on by temperature of hot oil coming into cooler, fan only needs to run if COOLER is not capable of cooling oil to below t-stat temp because there is not enough ambient temp change in cooling coil of cooler by natural air flow through cooler IE: cooler buried someplace deep in vehicle where there is no natural air flow.......
And as I mentioned above, control circuit should be under ignition switch control, there is no reason for fan to run if oil is not flowing through cooler...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20807
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
IF fan is running after car shuts off, its because of two things, temperature rise at t-stat because oil is no longer flowing and not cooling t-stat and control circuit for fan (relay) is not wired for control by key switch, its wired direct to battery which is not necessary or desirable...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jason
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002
Posts: 3462
Location: Garage
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| My fan usually only comes on after shutting the motor off. I think it has something to do with the motor not blowing the air to cool. It's usually only a minute or two. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jason
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002
Posts: 3462
Location: Garage
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I do mine backwards, do all the triggering with the ground legs and the fan will stay on after the car is turned off. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20807
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| [email protected] wrote: |
| Something else to consider is adding a diode to the warning light from your alternator. If the cooling fan is running when you go to shut off the engine, the fan blades spinning to a stop can cause feedback into the charging system. MSD recomends using a 1 amp, 100 volt diode. I think the Radio Shack part # is 276-1103. Just wire it inline of the wire between the alternator, and charging light. The diode should have a stripe on it, and the stripe end goes to the alternator. Another thing to consider is running the thermostat after the cooler, so the cooler has an opportunity to cool some without the fan. |
Fan is not going to generate enough electricity to keep engine running.... Besides, if wired correctly relay coil 12 volts should be sourced by ignition switch and once key is off, relay contacts "open" and there is no electrical path from fan motor to possibly cause run on condition...
Diode that MSD supplies and shows in its diagrams do nothing to stop run on unless there is a malfunction in MSD box and it puts out a voltage on IGN (control off-on) wire.... Which under normal circumstances it should not do....
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Last edited by Dale M. on Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20807
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Should work either way unless there is a diode across internal coil of relay..... The relay is just a electromagnetic switch and in most cases does not care what polarity is on 85/86...
But the correct way is...
85 ground
86 12 volts
87 Output
30 + 12 volts input...
http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/042003_07.pdf
To test total circuit, just take a jumper wire and go across the two terminals of t-stat switch, fan should start up.......
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Last edited by Dale M. on Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:51 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
risk
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2004
Posts: 724
Location: Stumpbroke, Arkansas
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bsairhead wrote: |
| 85 is the ground. Edit, Or 86, should not matter |
Yeah I guess it could go either way.. I have always wired them the same way, 85 to ground and never had an issue. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dgsaz
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2008
Posts: 584
Location: Phoenix / San Diego
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| risk wrote: |
| There are a few different ways to wire it up depending on how you are using it.. for your application I think you need to swap 85 & 86. |
Thanks for the answers. I'll try it and report back.
dgsaz |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bsairhead
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 4488
Location: viroqua wi.
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 85 is the ground. Edit, Or 86, should not matter |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
