Engine in pieces, not sure what I'm doing, lots of questions

[db69]

[db69]

[quote="sb001"]

[Volks Wagen]

[Zundfolge1432]

[Volks Wagen]

[sb001]

[OLD VW NUT]

[57BLITZ]

[Danwvw]

Align-bore is necessary when the case does not hold the main-bearings nice and tight, and the thrust cut to #1 Flywheel end Main bearing Journal is done if the new bearing fit's it loose. Machine shops that do the align bore have the ability to machine the #1 main bearing to fit whatever your case is thrust cut to. It is a good practice to only thrust cut the case just enough to clean it up then cut the next thicker bearing to match. This is done so as to allow the case to be used for more future rebuilds. When the case is thrust cut to 20mm that is it. Main bearings narrower than that aren't available. Also it's good to not align bore the case unless it is needed as only a couple perhaps 3 alignbores can be done on any given case before it's too big to hold the bearings available. As far as stroking a used case? I don't see why not. The main thing is it be in good condition. And a Dual Relief case.
There is nothing wrong with running 1.25 Ratio Rockers and a stock cam, It's just that you don't have to. You can buy a cam that will do the same thing. Also the Ratio Rockers are a little difficult to set up correctly. I had them on a stock engine and they do help a little. If you use a stock carb use something like the W-100 or even the CB-2231 but if you use the Weber 40 carbs go for some cam. The CB-2232 would be very mild get good milage and with it's low lift it would work with the heater boxes and the big valve heads but that's just not Ideal. Better to get the larger ID Racing Heater Boxes when running 35.5X40mm valve heads. The W110 cam would also work well with the webers. I went with a Web-Cam 163 for my VW bus engine. it's a little easer on the valve train than a W-110, It's a very nice cam being very close to the Porsche 356 engine camshaft. If you build your engine to achieve 6000 rpm your going to be looking at more cam than what we are talking about. We are looking at cams to about 4500-5000 RPM when we talk about the W-110 and to about 5000-5500 when we talk about the web-cam 163. Your case may be fine but most people when they see how it looks inside of #3 are going to shy off. It would be a good case to trade in as a core on a short block or something! I would say it may be worth $300 if it's really still fine but the trick is to find a buyer. I paid $200 for two engines with cranks and everything, one was complete. I paid $125 for my last case used. It's on it's last life though with all the alignbores it's like 3rd over on align bore and 2nd over on the thrust. Good used VW rods are worth something perhaps $50 per set. Whatever the Machine shops that re-radiuses them want's for a core charge. You can have your Stock rods re-done for about $50 at machine shops like, Brothers, DPR, De Mello and many VW parts suppliers will do it for you too.
Hope this helps, Liked the Photos! The CB-2232Here would be about the same as 1.25:1 Rockers and a stock cam good to 4500 RPM. The W-100 Cam here AirCooled.Net W-100 Specifications is a classic cam traditionally used in stock engines. It's about the most cam a stock carb engine can tolerate. The Scat C20, C25, C35, C45 Camshafts are sort of like the story of the 3 bears only in their case there are 2 cubs the C20 and the C25. The C20 is very close to a stock cam. The C35 (Call it Momma Bear) is probably close to what your needing for the dual Webers 40 IDF carbs. Poppa Bear would move the power up the RPM Range too much for a Daily Driver. But it could be run with the right heads, especially with the 82mm stroke. Probably want a really strong aluminum case, bigger carbs, Merged larger ID exhaust, etc... though. The thing you may not yet realize is just how powerful an engine like the 2110 is compared to a stock engine. (Check out this video!) The 2180cc may be an easier build not sure, Depends on what you have to do to get the pistons to clear the crank on the 82mm stroke 2110. (The AirCooled Net folks will know.)
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[mattegan]

I'm getting most of my info from the Aircooled.net articles (the one about building performance engines) and also read the part about performance in the back of the Muir guide.

GArBA, holy cow! Thanks for linking that. I would have never thought. I'll make double sure. I may just take Danwvw's advice and just go at it with a Dremel and wire brush, possibly letting a shop put it in their cleaner.

Danwvw, I didn't notice that crack except in the photo, I'll take another look.

I'll measure the journal widths tonight.

Yeah, I read on the Aircooled.net article that I should never use a 'used' case for anything other than stock, but I've heard other things elsewhere. What if it's never had an align-bore?

Okay, I hadn't even considered anything about the heater boxes. I guess I'll have to figure that out. I definitely want to keep heat to use the thing in the winters here. Are you saying there's some relation between the cam/rockers and the heater boxes?

What's wrong with running ratio rockers with the stock cam?

edit: Just curious, what's the market for used engine parts? I know this is going to be expensive, but is there any chance that anybody wants to buy a crank and rods and case that are still in good condition?

[Danwvw]

You got it apart!, Looks like your having fun. "Strange Marks" is either where the casting got cleaned up at the factory or the case had a previous life where it threw a rod or something that caused that damage on the #3 opening. It does look like a hit, and a fracture there but you will have to figure that out as photos often pick up marks and things and make them look like cracks when they aren't.

The damage where the distributor gear sits' doesn't look bad. I would just clean it up with a Dremel tool, But yeah, If this case came from the factory that way '' ! The German cases are a cleaner!

The 27A looks like a factory QA Id or something or it could be that last guy that worked on it.

The center main bearing journal looks good! If the Flywheel main bearing journal is that good, Your good to go without an align-bore. Well provide that's not a crack in the strange marks photo.

Not sure this case is good enough to be stroker build or opening up for 90.5's-92's let alone 94's for that mater though. I would get a new Aluminum case if your going to build a big engine. This case would make a good candidate for the stock rebuild though! (provided it checks out)

How is the thrust. Measure the Journal width on the #1 Main bearing. 22mm is standard. 21mm 1st under and 22mm 2nd under. It may be somewhere in between like 21.5mm or 20.5mm. We refer to the main bearings by numbers starting at the Flywheel for #1, #2 is the center main #3 the next and the little one near the pulley is #4.

I have cleaned cases up with a tooth brush, wire brush, some round wire brush attachments for a high speed drill motor and soap and water, paint thinner and screwdriver for a scraper. It would be nice to get the paint all off and shine it up a bit with a wire brush.
But it's best to have a VW Aircooled knowledgeable machine shop with a magnesium aluminum safe parts cleaner process do it. Usually only cost $50 then take your tooth brush etc. too it. Some people like to remove all the oil galley plugs and clean them and check the sizes too. Probably not necessary if the engine had good oil pressure and was running be-fore hand. But still it's good to do. You can get the galley plugs.
I would try to get my parts form a company that can answer any questions you may have, CB-Performance should have a good selection of crankshafts. I got one from Air-Cooled.Net (forged 4340) They can advise on what stroke, bore, rod, push rod, piston type A or B match for the big engine builds. (I would consider anything over a 1679 cc engine to be a big engine!) (You do need to re-think Cam, Heads, etc... If you want to go with Mofoco 42 heads's which are big valve heads then your going to need J-tubes or Larger ID heater exhaust pipes. A lots of nice exhaust systems to choose from, but to go cheap the Empi or Bug-Pack 4-into 1 1 1/2 are what your looking for. Stainless steel flanged would be nice though. The PhatBoy set's a little higher and looks great. Better to run a cam and not ratio rockers unless you go to the 1.4 ratios and their cams. With Weber-40's and say a 1679cc engine something around the W-100 to the W110 cam is what can be used with good results. CB-Performance has a nice right up on their cams. I went with the CB-2231 that I got from Air Cooled.Net and am am going to run 1.25 ratio rockers with it when I put on dual carbs. But with the stock rockers it will get high gas milage. It would be a good choice for large valve heads like you have. You could I think get away running stock heater boxes that way with it. Lots of people do use a low cam lift cam and large valve combination like it with stock heater boxes. Not Ideal but it's working if heat is needed. The problem is that the stock heater boxes limits the RPM and causes the engines to be a little constipated and they run hotter than with larger less restricted exhaust pipe. Best with it.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[GArBa]

[sb001]

Mattegan, where did you read all this info? What are these documents you speak of --the Gene Berg stuff?
It's not that I'm questioning any of it- I just want to read up on the same stuff myself.
I have the Tom Wilson book but really unless you're just doing a stock rebuild it doesn't say much- not really a lot of "upgrade" info.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[Towel Rail]

[mattegan]

Reasonings? Just because it'd take some more work to clearance the case, or do you think it'll result in less reliability than say an 80mm or 78mm stroke?

[57BLITZ]

I'm gonna try to talk you out of using the 82mm crank!
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Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador!

[mattegan]

Okay. I've done more reading, and more reading.

I also split the crankcase open. I couldn't for the life of me get the wrist pins out by heating the pistons, and recommendation I heard to just unbolt the rods… didn't work either, because the rods were pretty stuck onto the crank.

Also, thanks Danwvw, totally was the oil cooler housing. Damn Bentley manual didn't mention that (their complete directions were remove sump plate, remove bolts, pull apart). Got it open, put all of the little bolts I had stored on the studs on the engine into marked ziplock bags, and removed the studs using the double nut method.

Took it to a self car wash and got all of the dirt and grime off. Some of the paint came off as well. Here are some pictures. Looks like some nicks from some machining in the past? Or maybe caused by engine internals, though the locations make that seem really unlikely to me.

I think I'll probably let it sit in some parts cleaner or something for a while to remove all of the paint.

Flat part?

Is this rough part around where the distributor gear sits normal?

Strange marks?

Other half.

More strange marks?

At this point. From what I've read, a 90.5 bore and a 82mm stroke for a 2110cc is a reliable choice. I think I'll go with a stock cam with some HD springs and ratio rockers (not sure what ratio, probably nothing too aggressive, not above what the documents said the stock could handle). I'm thinking about 042 Mofoco heads, not sure what to do about rods, from what I've read 82mm stroke is the limit for I beams, but I might invest in some nicer I beams.

I haven't decided what to do as far as carbs or exhaust goes though. I'm thinking Dual Weber 40mm IDAs, but they're pretty expensive new. Might try to find some used on the classifieds or something. We'll see.

As far as exhaust goes... I'm lost. Everything I've read has said I need to update the exhaust (which I'm aware of), but stops at that. It's hard to find what each one can support. I've heard good stuff about the dual quiet packs... but do they offer more or less flow than the EMPI GT four tip? (And I know EMPI is really controversial, any other brand recommendations?) I mean, ideally I want something that looks kind of stock, I don't like the look of the wide tips that don't fill the little indentations in the body.

Lastly, where do you guys source your parts/cylinders? I mean, even for the crankshaft I can't find anything other than EMPI that has an 82mm. Mofoco stocks the EMPI stuff but I've just heard such terrible things about their products. People say that the EMPI cranks are probably cast but they say they are forged... Is CBPerformance a good place?

Anyway, feeling less lost, but still pretty lost.

[Danwvw]

[Zundfolge1432]

[Zundfolge1432]

[/quote] This is exactly what he is saying he DOESN'T need more of.

Why is it so difficult for those of you in the know about rebuilding engines to answer his straightforward questions????? Just TELL him what he needs![/quote]


Ask Siri entire books have been written covering the topic. One thing I picked up from the original post he said all the valve clearances had decreased,this is classic sign of overheating. We are not trying to reinvent the wheel because everything he needs has been covered years ago. Try the search feature here. Read gene bergs book of technical articles written while most of you here were still shitting your diaper. Then look at Tom Wilson's book. Or take the advice of random self styled experts on the samba there are only a handful of people here who's advice I take seriously. The novice might have a harder time figuring who they are which is why I push reading the books. After you read the books know what I am talking about.if you are serious about this take the time to educate yourself, ok ?