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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52284
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 Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like you are getting some cracks developing in the tank, probably time to replace it and the coolant level sensor.
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T3 Pilot
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 1509
Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Been doing it this way for years with an inexpensive bike pump with built in gauge...... No muss, no fuss. Bleed your cooling system, check it for leaks and test your cap as well
Thanks for the picks Denwood!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6892575
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1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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rrawlings1
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| dobryan wrote: |
| rrawlings1 wrote: |
Yep, I'm familiar with the sensor, as when I bought the van it had the constant blinking light problem, which I corrected. I made sure that the tank had sufficient coolant (i.e. well above the minimum line which should be the threshold for the sensor) |
Can you show us a picture of this 'minimum line'? Unless it is an '84 model year thing. There is no such thing on my '87. |
You bet! For some reason I can't get the code to embed the photo. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1231760
Also, I spun the van around so it was nose down / rear up in the driveway, and added more fluid and sure enough it started coming out of the radiator bleed screw. I ran the engine until it came out without bubbles and topped off the expansion tank, then closed the rear bleed screw too, and closed the expansion tank (while the vehicle was running). Hope this was correct, as it seems to be working.
I guess the instructions on vanagonparts.com were not really accurate for me.... |
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Howesight
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3401
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| greenraVR6 wrote: |
I've had great luck bleeding the system on my van by parking on an incline on the side of my driveway with the nose down, then jacking up the rear a little further. With the engine cool I open the 3 bleeders. The engine bay one flows almost immediately, under the rear seat flows almost immediately and the radiator bleeder takes a few more seconds to flow solid. I usually close the 2 rear ones then let the radiator flow for a bit, refilling the expansion tank as needed.
After doing this about 4 different times over a few day period my van's cooling system hasn't given me any issues for some time now. Before this my van would randomly overheat or the needle would go almost all the way up. Now it holds steady just above the red led when warmed up  |
And you didn't burn your fingers with hot coolant or build a bong. That's why I use the "nose down, tail up" method too.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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greenraVR6
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2011
Posts: 306
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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I've had great luck bleeding the system on my van by parking on an incline on the side of my driveway with the nose down, then jacking up the rear a little further. With the engine cool I open the 3 bleeders. The engine bay one flows almost immediately, under the rear seat flows almost immediately and the radiator bleeder takes a few more seconds to flow solid. I usually close the 2 rear ones then let the radiator flow for a bit, refilling the expansion tank as needed.
After doing this about 4 different times over a few day period my van's cooling system hasn't given me any issues for some time now. Before this my van would randomly overheat or the needle would go almost all the way up. Now it holds steady just above the red led when warmed up
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'88 vanagon*****'91 gti 1.8t*****'04 r32*****'11 suburban z71 |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17127
Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| rrawlings1 wrote: |
Yep, I'm familiar with the sensor, as when I bought the van it had the constant blinking light problem, which I corrected. I made sure that the tank had sufficient coolant (i.e. well above the minimum line which should be the threshold for the sensor) |
Can you show us a picture of this 'minimum line'? Unless it is an '84 model year thing. There is no such thing on my '87.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD
"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson
MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646
Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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rrawlings1
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Ahwahnee wrote: |
| rrawlings1 wrote: |
| ...Originally I had run the engine until the temp gauge was nearly maxed out. Surely we had reached operating temperature... |
Shirley -
In case you are not aware of this -- there is a sensor in the top of the pressurized tank you are filling.
On an 84, if the engine is running and that tank is not filled high enough to submerse that sensor. the blinky light will flash and the temperature gauge will peg at full hot irrespective of the temperature of the coolant.
You might be led to think the engine was much hotter than it really was if you're watching the gauge during this process.
Pointing an IR thermometer at the tstat housing is one way to get a reliable temperature reading. |
Yep, I'm familiar with the sensor, as when I bought the van it had the constant blinking light problem, which I corrected. I made sure that the tank had sufficient coolant (i.e. well above the minimum line which should be the threshold for the sensor) Also, I think it would be possible to heat the engine up quite a bit if the coolant isn't making it to the radiator, but then again I could be wrong. I may snag a HF IR thermometer, that's not a bad idea, plus it's an excuse to get another tool.... I'll try tinkering a bit more tonight when I get home from work! |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6925
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| rrawlings1 wrote: |
Hi All,
Originally I had run the engine until the temp gauge was nearly maxed out. Surely we had reached operating temperature by that point, right? My understanding of the cooling system mostly comes from this link:
http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=52
The van is not my daily driver, but its in good shape and runs well. No overheating issues or anything prior to this. I was just trying to be frugal and thought "how hard can it be?"
I'll try raising the rear of the van, failing that I'll explore the thermostat. |
Are you 100% certain your thermostat is opening? Have you tested it in a pot of hot water to see it move?
I think you answered the how hard could it be part! |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6925
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
With the engine cool and the van parked on level use a match book to hold the throttle open so that the engine is revving fast enough to draw down the coolant in the expansion tank. Keep adding coolant until the tank will not take anymore and then walk around front and open the bleeder, removing it fully if need be. You should get air at first followed by coolant. Close off the bleeder and put the cap back on the tank refilling it if necessary.
You will not get any flow through the radiator until the engine is hot enough for the thermostat to open, which will take many minutes of running. |
I would advise practice putting the bleed screw back in a few times, it can be an annoying thing to do fast when the coolant is coming out! |
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atomatom
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012
Posts: 1911
Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:41 am Post subject: |
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In addition to the above, check the temp guage when you turn the van on when cold. Is it maxed out then? Does it max out within 30 seconds? Very unlikely your van could warm up to operating temp in anything less than 5 minutes, more likely 10.
All said, an IR thermometer is a fantastic tool to have and can be had for $20-30. It can help rule out all sorts of issues.
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84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 10210
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| rrawlings1 wrote: |
| ...Originally I had run the engine until the temp gauge was nearly maxed out. Surely we had reached operating temperature... |
Shirley -
In case you are not aware of this -- there is a sensor in the top of the pressurized tank you are filling.
On an 84, if the engine is running and that tank is not filled high enough to submerse that sensor. the blinky light will flash and the temperature gauge will peg at full hot irrespective of the temperature of the coolant.
You might be led to think the engine was much hotter than it really was if you're watching the gauge during this process.
Pointing an IR thermometer at the tstat housing is one way to get a reliable temperature reading. |
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rrawlings1
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Hi All,
Originally I had run the engine until the temp gauge was nearly maxed out. Surely we had reached operating temperature by that point, right? My understanding of the cooling system mostly comes from this link:
http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=52
The van is not my daily driver, but its in good shape and runs well. No overheating issues or anything prior to this. I was just trying to be frugal and thought "how hard can it be?"
I'll try raising the rear of the van, failing that I'll explore the thermostat. |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17127
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 10210
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:12 am Post subject: |
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I fill my system cold using a 12VDC pump (a 3# fuel pump I happen to have).
The tube goes to the pressure cap which is still in place on the tank (in fact that tube from the pump is just the stock one pulled off the overflow tank)..
I always drill a small hole in the thermostat (about 3/16") so I can fill the system w/o having to get the engine hot.
Since the nomenclature can be confusing, the tank on the left is the one to be filled whatever method is involved:
I usually call the left tank the 'pressurized tank' and the tank on the right the 'overflow reservoir'. I do not recall what the Bentley calls them but (to me) the term 'expansion tank' is ambiguous.
Just to throw another method in the mix -- many use what is commonly called the 'Libby Bong' which employs gravity in lieu of an electric pump but gets a similar result to my method. A search on Libby Bong will turn up details.
Good luck. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52284
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:28 am Post subject: |
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With the engine cool and the van parked on level use a match book to hold the throttle open so that the engine is revving fast enough to draw down the coolant in the expansion tank. Keep adding coolant until the tank will not take anymore and then walk around front and open the bleeder, removing it fully if need be. You should get air at first followed by coolant. Close off the bleeder and put the cap back on the tank refilling it if necessary.
You will not get any flow through the radiator until the engine is hot enough for the thermostat to open, which will take many minutes of running. |
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Hammy1
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2012
Posts: 220
Location: OTTAWA, ON
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:25 am Post subject: |
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I used a coolant system pressure tester to bleed my system. Worked great, also good for finding leaks in your system. You'll also need and adaptor for the vw coolant tank.
Jon |
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atomatom
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012
Posts: 1911
Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the water pump does help a bit if you rev it. But yeah, coolant will want to flow downhill. I forgot that while fixing a leak today and coolant came gushing out when I hit operating temps.
rrawlings1 didn't say how long the engine was run. It can take 10-15 minutes to come up to temp.
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84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6925
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Howesight wrote: |
hey RRawlings
Here's your problem: Coolant will not flow uphill. When bleeding the rad, the front of the van needs to be LOWER than the back. You thus make the expansion tank filler neck the highest point in the system. Most of the bleeding is done with the engine not running. Remember where the hoses enter the Vanagon radiator - - at the bottom and at the middle. This is why the rad can hold so much air and why it is important to bleed the rad with the top of the rad lower than the filler neck of the expansion tank. This is the only way (except for the Libby Bong, which simulates the Van being on an incline) to force air out of the rad.
The reason for running the engine and revving it is to force air bubbles out of the front and rear heater cores. |
So the water pump is not doing anything at 2000 rpm to push water through the radiator? |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6925
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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From reading the previous reply maybe you could remove the bleed fitting on the radiator and make a vacuum fitting adaptable to a wetvac & put a vacuum on it?
I just used one of those "vacuum heads" you can buy at homedepot to fit their 5 gallon buckets to suck coolant out of a system and it pulled so much it started to collapse the bucket! |
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Howesight
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3401
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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hey RRawlings
Here's your problem: Coolant will not flow uphill. When bleeding the rad, the front of the van needs to be LOWER than the back. You thus make the expansion tank filler neck the highest point in the system. Most of the bleeding is done with the engine not running. Remember where the hoses enter the Vanagon radiator - - at the bottom and at the middle. This is why the rad can hold so much air and why it is important to bleed the rad with the top of the rad lower than the filler neck of the expansion tank. This is the only way (except for the Libby Bong, which simulates the Van being on an incline) to force air out of the rad.
The reason for running the engine and revving it is to force air bubbles out of the front and rear heater cores.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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