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wdfifteen
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2019
Posts: 696
Location: Ohio
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 Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2024 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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| PaytonD21 wrote: |
If it matters my carb is a H30/31 pict
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I had the same problem with one of those. Gas in the oil, and driving it I had to crank and crank to get it to fire. Obviously it was getting too much gas for some reason. I put it on the bench and pumped gasoline into it and I could hear a gurgling sound coming out of it even at 2.5 psi. I'm sorry I don't have a solution for you. It was the wrong carb for my car, so I replaced it with the correct one instead of trying to fix the H30/31. |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16804
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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| LancA2C wrote: |
Not sure if I'm in the right place.
I've got a '71 Westie that was sitting in the bush for 25 yrs. It's now up and running , the problem I'm having is fuel in the crank case. After installing a new
stock carb. , it's been driven about 50 miles. My feeling is that the diaphragm in the pump is the source.
Bentley claims you can't access the diaphragm in these pumps so they have to be replaced. My question is : is there a procedure to bench test the pump to determine if that is the problem? I've drained the oil and puled the pump It is the original and it would be nice to keep it in service.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. |
If you pull the pump and the grease has been washed out of the foot area, pretty safe to assume the diaphragm is shot and its leaking into the case. I have run into this quite a bit and just had it happen on my 65 bug. Checked the oil and it was about 1/2 qt high. Pulled the pump and some of the grease was gone. Pump replacement and oil change...all good.
_________________
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Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 4104
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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| LancA2C wrote: |
| Any suggestions would be appreciated. |
To test for diaphragm leakage, all you have to do is connect the input fitting of the (removed from engine) pump to some
container of gas held above the fitting. A small funnel that you can fit a hose over the bottom of, for instance. Work the
operating lever of the pump a few times till
gas starts emerging from the output. This ensures the upper diaphragm chamber is filled with gas.
If there's a leak, it will start running out the vent hole in
the bottom side of the diaphragm chamber. Contrary to the assertions of many here, gas will not
leak down into the lever chamber (and eventually into the crankcase if the pump was installed) unless
there's an absolute flood of gas thru the diaphragm. So, if your pump was operating and you didn't get
a bunch of gas running onto the top of your engine, you can forget the pump diaphragm as a source
of the gas in your oil.
VW installed a version of the "non-rebuildable" fuel pumps with a fuel cutoff valve on some Type 1 vehicles, but not
in the '71 busses. There might be one for sale in the classifieds here. Failing that, I would suggest getting a rebuilt
stock Pierburg "square-top" fuel pump from one of the rebuilders who advertise here on thesamba.com, because
they have a built-in fuel cutoff valve which is designed to eliminate slow leakage of fuel from the tank into the
engine, which is likely the cause of your gassy oil.
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LancA2C
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2021
Posts: 1
Location: British Columbia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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Not sure if I'm in the right place.
I've got a '71 Westie that was sitting in the bush for 25 yrs. It's now up and running , the problem I'm having is fuel in the crank case. After installing a new
stock carb. , it's been driven about 50 miles. My feeling is that the diaphragm in the pump is the source.
Bentley claims you can't access the diaphragm in these pumps so they have to be replaced. My question is : is there a procedure to bench test the pump to determine if that is the problem? I've drained the oil and puled the pump It is the original and it would be nice to keep it in service.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 35978
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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| I'd replace the E/M plunger valve and only then see what happens. It should click and actuate, so if it doesn't, all bets are off for carb behavior. Looks like about $20 and you may be home free. |
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PaytonD21
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015
Posts: 83
Location: Washington, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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| So after tilting the carb to the angle of where I park the carb didn't leak. I even set it on the intake to make sure the level was correct and no leaking. I had to tilt it at a pretty good angle for gas to leak. Is that normal? |
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thomas.
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010
Posts: 1366
Location: South West (Pa.)
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:58 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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You can eliminate the cut off valve by plugging it up like I did a few years ago or you can cut off the plunger and reuse your cut off valve. There's a lot written in the search about this. I've since eliminated the horizontal spring.
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PaytonD21
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015
Posts: 83
Location: Washington, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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| Quote: |
| Yes, yours is the plunger type like Phil says. |
| Quote: |
| Yours is just an on-off passageway blocker. |
Thank you and thank you. I'll do the tilt check in the morning. Float in lid on bowl full and see what happens. |
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flyboy161
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2135
Location: Perry, GA
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 35978
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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PaytonD21
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015
Posts: 83
Location: Washington, USA
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PaytonD21
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015
Posts: 83
Location: Washington, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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| Quote: |
| Have removed it and plugged it in to see if it retracts with power and extends when off? |
Just got finish testing that out. The valve did nothing with the power on or when the power was turned off. I checked the wire to make sure there was power to it, and it had about 12.7 volts.
It looks like I'll be ordering a new valve. Thank you.
| Quote: |
| I wonder if the electromechanical shut off valve is stuck open, allowing fuel to drain out. |
The valve didn't even work. Thanks for the advice. |
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PaytonD21
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015
Posts: 83
Location: Washington, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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| The float seems to be about the right weight of 10.5 grams. The only scale I have access to is in ounces and a mechanical scale. |
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PaytonD21
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015
Posts: 83
Location: Washington, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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| Quote: |
Hey, no offense, but you're getting wrapped up in some details here |
No thank you. That's one of the reasons I posted here and why I'm posting as many pictures as possible. I want to make sure I'm not skipping over anything.
I'm going to weigh the float today and I will also try both suggestions today as well |
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flyboy161
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2135
Location: Perry, GA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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Hey, no offense, but you're getting wrapped up in some details here. You say your driveway is a slight incline up, right? So tilt the carb full of fuel the same as your driveway and see if it leaks fuel on the bench. Make sure your float is installed and the bowl is at 5cm or whatever you got there. If you have to put the top on it, do it.
The idle cutoff jet is below the bowl but look at the diagram above. The path of the fuel actually leaves the bottom of the bowl through the main jet and travels up to the two jets on the passenger side of the carb. From there it drains down to the idle cutoff jet. That is supposed to stop what's happening to you. Is it functioning? Have removed it and plugged it in to see if it retracts with power and extends when off? If it is non functional fuel will drain out of the bowl and get in your cylinders when the back end of the car is downhill.
The action is known as siphoning and it will pull every bit of fuel out of your carb and fuel lines while the car sits there
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PaytonD21
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015
Posts: 83
Location: Washington, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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Here are pictures showing the max height of the fuel with and without the float in.
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PaytonD21
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015
Posts: 83
Location: Washington, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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| Quote: |
| your fuel pressure is too high. It's a known thing with those pumps. You can stack gaskets, you can sheave off some of the pushrod, but the preferred fix is to replace the diaphragm spring |
Do you mean out of the box it is too high? I found that out, but I recently was able to get it down very close to what stock was. When the pressure was high the car would die at idle because the carb was getting flooded. It no longer has that issue with the pressure fixed. |
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PaytonD21
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015
Posts: 83
Location: Washington, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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| Quote: |
Not sure I have all the facts, but here's a theory. Looking at how low the fuel level is after you first took the top off, I wonder if the electromechanical shut off valve is stuck open, allowing fuel to drain out.
In this diagram you can see a siphon path from the bowl through the E/M valve, If your jet was stuck open it may drain down to that level. This is about there your first pic shows the level.
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I think the bowl is on the other side of the EM valve. And when I look at mine the EM valve sits below the bottom of the bowl meaning the bowl would be empty. It could be an option, but right now I'm thinking the float may be too heavy. |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13552
Location: Tejas!
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PaytonD21
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2015
Posts: 83
Location: Washington, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Gas in oil |
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| Quote: |
| Now it comes down to systematic deduction in search for leaks at the carb. |
I blew into where the fuel line connected to the carb. Air went through the valve when it was open and stopped as soon as I closed it.
I then filled the bowl with gas and let it drain out until there was no excess draining. I put the float into the bowl with the same level of gas and then saw how much drained out from the weight of the float raising the fuel level.
From the amount of gas I left in the bowl last night and the amount of gas still in this morning, I'd say the carb itself isn't leaking. There is a little bit gone, but I'd say that could be due to evaporation. |
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