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beetlenut
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009
Posts: 3012
Location: RI
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 Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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I found that panel fitment should take at least half the time it takes to do the whole job. Your gap all around your panel has to be the same, which is about the thickness of the metal you are welding, and you have to be careful with the first 5 or 6 welds to get them spaced equally around the panel circumference. You also don't want to put a spot next to another spot. You want to put the next spot as far away on the panel from the previous spot as you can. Some people use a spray bottle with water, or compressed air, to cool the metal as they go.
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scrapyards are for quitters
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| Wetstuff wrote: |
| ... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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67ctbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3670
Location: CT
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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No joking there, you should have seen my floor pans before the seam sealer went on. There was 1/8" lap from the pans to the lip on the tunnel in some places  I couldn't even attempt plug welds . The Firewall which I'm taking out still looks like someone put the heat on high and did beads on it in some places from the old flux core welder.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future".  |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27656
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| Lots of practice. The worse you are at fitting, the better you will be at gap filling |
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67ctbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3670
Location: CT
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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I actually did what KBStockpiler said to and got the panel in. Now I'm just filling pinholes because my panel cutting skills are a little bad and I may have had to fill a 1/4" gap with weld and a bad homemade patch.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
| ...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27656
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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yeah you have to pulse 1/8 inch at a time, and freeze, then 1/8 inch, freeze, repeat. Control the heat with the how long you pause.
You don't want the voltage too low. If it's not high enough compared to wire speed you blow holes, as the wire doesn't melt fast enough it puts too much heat in the metal. More volts less wire speed you start melting the wire before it actually hits, part of the time, and that can let you weld really thin stuff, if you can get it working for you at the right rhythm.
On my old miller 130 I would use #1 voltage for around 18 gauge, but to go even thinner often back up to #2 voltage with the wire speed set about as low as practical. My eastwood with the infinite adjustemtents isn't really any better at that. it surely has a "smoother" arc but that smoothness actually does not help much when pulse welding, but does ok, I've welded packing straps together with it just fine, they are less than .020 thick!
Last edited by modok on Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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67ctbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3670
Location: CT
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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I'm using the spot in different places technique. I actually did what you said to do with the voltage and it started working  . I got the new piece in almost perfect except I messed up the cut, but I made a patch for that too.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
| ...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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A butt joint on 20 gauge is going to have to have perfect to virtually perfect fit up to do a continuous weld AND you are going to have to keep the edges from warping apart about every 1/4 of and inch. This means you can't be able to see light between the pieces at all or Very Very little. I have never tried to back the seam up with copper but I'm informed that it is a technique that works. Sometimes a work around is a bigger hassle than it's worth.
If you use the 'repeated spot weld technique,butt weld with gap,manually pulse weld etcetera', you will avoid a lot of problems butt welding thin metal.
There are a few threads on how to do this in this forum.
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Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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67ctbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3670
Location: CT
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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20 gauge, butt joint. 0.023 wire with 75/25.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
| ...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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I would put the voltage on 1/3rd of it's dial to start. What gauge and type of joint ,etcetera are you going to do ,.025 wire with gas?
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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67ctbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3670
Location: CT
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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Been using the new mig for a while and I am having some trouble. I can't find the right setting, the chart is bad IMHO and it burns through everything. I'm welding replacement panels in today or tomorow and am welding OG steel right now and I don't want to keep having to make huge piles of weld to fill holes. Does anyone else have this welder? What settings are you running. Ive seen some beautiful welds come from this machine in pictures so I know it's possible.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
| ...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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OKType3Tim 
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 285
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:49 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
| MIG welding uses a fraction of what the TIG welding process uses. An 80cfm TIG tank is equivalent to a 22cfm MIG tank. |
Agreed
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'69 Fastback restoration
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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MIG welding uses a fraction of what the TIG welding process uses. An 80cfm TIG tank is equivalent to a 22cfm MIG tank.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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OKType3Tim
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2011
Posts: 285
Location: Northeast Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| 67ctbug wrote: |
| I think 40-80 is good for me. I don't need a huge tank and I don't want a 20. I'll give them a call Monday. |
What Dr. Stockpiler is getting at is that even on the best units with the best gauges...you will rarely find yourself working at one might consider "gas conserving" levels...down under about 12-15 CFH...because you have to set up the gas shield to actually work for the metal, wire and current combo...as well air cross air flow disturbance (your results will vary in other words)...and even the best regulators do not function well down below about 10 CFH. So...you usually use more gas than you think unless conditions are perfect.
Also....on the other side of the gauge set....the high pressure side....working down under a couple of hundred PSI of supply pressure on a very small tank usually makes for a very inaccurate flow regulation so you can rarely get all of the gas out of the tank and make good welds.
Also....you probably actually use as much gas advancing and cutting off wire after a nozzle or tip issue...than you do actually welding. If you have to to change a spool or change a tip..having the presence of mind to shut off the gas can help with gas usage.
But just for the record....even a 40 CF tank ...as an amateur welder ...I would consider simply a "jump tank"...small enough to drag out to the middle of somewhere.
Just for reference....here is a chart of bottle sizes. There is some small manufacturer variation but in general they are standardized.
My 80 CF bottle is right at 44" to the top of the protective cap and 7" in diameter.
The 40 CF bottle as you can see is just 10" shorter ..topping out at about 34" tall.
Ray |
Ditto on what Ray says. Years ago when I first started learning to weld, I started with a 40CF bottle. Any little project at all would use it up, then back to the store for the next project. So trying to be frugal I moved up to an 80CF. One round of that and I realized (look at Ray's chart) that a 125 is only slightly taller and only 1/2" larger OD than the 80. One of those "Duh" moments.
As mentioned earlier, once you are in the system, you just exchange. And for my experience above, there was an upgrade charge as I went from one size to another. I just had my 125-(100% argon) refilled the other day, $35 including tax at airgas.
Usage: You use more than you will think. I refilled my 125 bottle 2 times during this TIG welded project. So total of 300+CF:
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'69 Fastback restoration
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23102
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
Tapered nozzles are 2nd in from the left.
Binzel 25 style (stated as a 11mm) actually measures closer to 1/2" from the one I have on hand . The non tapered version is huge.
Binzel 15 style (stated as 9.5mm) measures about 3/8" This is a really small gun and I only plan on using it with .025 wire.
In any event whomever's style of gun you have ,their tapered version will be about 1/8" smaller in diameter. |
Thank you! Learn something new every day! Ray |
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beetlenut
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009
Posts: 3012
Location: RI
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| 67ctbug wrote: |
| I think 40-80 is good for me. I don't need a huge tank and I don't want a 20. I'll give them a call Monday. |
I'm next door in RI and I also deal with Airgas. I bought into their system several years ago with a 40 for my Lincoln 110 MIG. I just bring in my old one and pay the refill fee. The guy comes out to my car and puts the refill in and takes the empty away. Done, and I'm on my way. I only usually weld in my garage, so my tanks seem to last quite a long time since my first one, which had the pressure up to high, and I forgot to turn the valve off after each use. 
_________________
scrapyards are for quitters
---------------------------------------
| Wetstuff wrote: |
| ... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23102
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| CiderGuy wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| 67ctbug wrote: |
| Ok well if that's a ripoff, the local airgas said 140 for a filled 40 cf. is that too small? I think an 80 might be better but I don't know how much it'll cost. |
Ask them. Prices will vary with labor costs and taxes from city to city....but....
I think you will find the cost is within about $20 for either bottle.
I went all of this same route four years ago when I started out. Bought a 40 cu ft bottle at HF...and I take it to Praxair....and they nicely said "we cannot and are not filling that POS...wrong DOT stamps and markings.
I asked what a 40 cu ft bottle would cost outright and filled...and they listed about $98.
The 80 cu ft bottle was $125 outfight and filled (and its not a new bottle. A new one was about $165 and.... they had none in stock cause no one wants one).
I asked what a trade out 80 cu ft bottle costs....and its $125....like they said.
Here is the TOTAL gist:
Buying a new bottle outright will cost you $150 or better.
If you own your own bottle....it will cost you $45 to fill up when its empty...at their convenience. And...every few years YOU will pay the cost of testing and recertifcation, new valve (required by law) and blowout seal.
If you use your local gas suppliers bottle...it will cost you about $125 (sounds like $140 in your case)...ONE TIME ONLY....and it will cost the same $45 to fill up when its empty....except that you NEVER have to pay for bottle recertification, new valve, new blowout seal etc.
The cost for a hydro test is only about $20-30. Bottles usually are every 5 years and some can be 10 years depending on design and whats in it. Valves get replaced when inspection finds a bad one.
See what I am saying here?
When your local gas supplier quotes you $140....ask them if that is a swap out cylinder and what it will cost to swap out an empty for a new one.
You may also be getting caught in the trap of sales being generated from a "newbie". If you come in wanting to BUY a NEW cylinder.....they may just be giving you EXACTLY what you ask for....wanting to buy a new cylinder so YOU can own it....which has no benefit.
You want to get into their bottle exchange program. Its going to cost you about $125...give or take....to get into that loop.
When the guy quotes you $140 for an 80 cu ft cylinder....ask him...'Thats an exchange cylinder right?"....and if he says "yeah"....ask him..."OK...what does it cost to swap for a full one when I bring this one back empty?"
Chances are...you will get an answer of between $45 and $60. 
One warning.....if you do not weld much.....like just a few inches of bead here or there every few months....get a 40 cu ft tank. And...pay attention to the expiration dates on the exchange bottle you get. If they are less than a year....you may end up keeping the bottle until after expiration date. A very few welding supply houses I have heard of...will whack you for that $20-30 testing few when you try to turn the bottle back in. Most do not.
Ray |
In the world I live in if you don't own your own tank there is also a monthly rental fee.
I have never waited to have a tank filled, you also have the option of swapping your tank for one of theirs
A 20 or 40 pound tank will give you many hours of welding time, which is more then enough to repair or restore your own car. I mention buying a co2 tank which will have the proper DOT stamps and will allow it to be filled up to 90% of the stated pressure.
If this is your business then that's another matter entirely. |
It depends totally....as you note....where you live and what services are local to you.
I have never seen a monthly rental rate among the main nationwide chains like Praxair......but I would bet that its not uncommon these days and may sooner or later be a practice taken up by many if not most.
I say this because its another source of revenue.....and also for weld gas suppliers that are not attached to medium and large cities.....I have always wondered how.....without major industrial businesses local to them.......they can justify the dozens if not hundreds of tanks for private hobby welders that tend to disappear from the system for anywhere from 1-3 years or longer and almost always come back with expired inspection.
Having lived in numerous major cities...Atlanta, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Philadelphia.......on more than one occasion I have had to wait for a fill when bringing in proprietary tanks from companies I worked for.
It all simply depends on how many people are working. This is becoming more common in many places. The local Praxair here.....never has more than three people on site. Usually two are in the showroom and one is working in the tank shop. I suspect any other employees are out driving delivery trucks.
If the place is busy.....and you want a tank filled and no one is in the tank shop or if they are busy filling an order for stock or a large customer......you wait.
Many of the larger shops like Praxiar and Airgas.....are not always interested in letting you swap your privately owned tank into their system...especially if its different in manufacturer or appearance.
Also.....if you swap your tank that you own...... into their system......its no longer your tank. The chances of you ever seeing it again is about "0". Ray |
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CiderGuy
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013
Posts: 1351
Location: Bucks County, Pa
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| 67ctbug wrote: |
| Ok well if that's a ripoff, the local airgas said 140 for a filled 40 cf. is that too small? I think an 80 might be better but I don't know how much it'll cost. |
Ask them. Prices will vary with labor costs and taxes from city to city....but....
I think you will find the cost is within about $20 for either bottle.
I went all of this same route four years ago when I started out. Bought a 40 cu ft bottle at HF...and I take it to Praxair....and they nicely said "we cannot and are not filling that POS...wrong DOT stamps and markings.
I asked what a 40 cu ft bottle would cost outright and filled...and they listed about $98.
The 80 cu ft bottle was $125 outfight and filled (and its not a new bottle. A new one was about $165 and.... they had none in stock cause no one wants one).
I asked what a trade out 80 cu ft bottle costs....and its $125....like they said.
Here is the TOTAL gist:
Buying a new bottle outright will cost you $150 or better.
If you own your own bottle....it will cost you $45 to fill up when its empty...at their convenience. And...every few years YOU will pay the cost of testing and recertifcation, new valve (required by law) and blowout seal.
If you use your local gas suppliers bottle...it will cost you about $125 (sounds like $140 in your case)...ONE TIME ONLY....and it will cost the same $45 to fill up when its empty....except that you NEVER have to pay for bottle recertification, new valve, new blowout seal etc.
The cost for a hydro test is only about $20-30. Bottles usually are every 5 years and some can be 10 years depending on design and whats in it. Valves get replaced when inspection finds a bad one.
See what I am saying here?
When your local gas supplier quotes you $140....ask them if that is a swap out cylinder and what it will cost to swap out an empty for a new one.
You may also be getting caught in the trap of sales being generated from a "newbie". If you come in wanting to BUY a NEW cylinder.....they may just be giving you EXACTLY what you ask for....wanting to buy a new cylinder so YOU can own it....which has no benefit.
You want to get into their bottle exchange program. Its going to cost you about $125...give or take....to get into that loop.
When the guy quotes you $140 for an 80 cu ft cylinder....ask him...'Thats an exchange cylinder right?"....and if he says "yeah"....ask him..."OK...what does it cost to swap for a full one when I bring this one back empty?"
Chances are...you will get an answer of between $45 and $60.
One warning.....if you do not weld much.....like just a few inches of bead here or there every few months....get a 40 cu ft tank. And...pay attention to the expiration dates on the exchange bottle you get. If they are less than a year....you may end up keeping the bottle until after expiration date. A very few welding supply houses I have heard of...will whack you for that $20-30 testing few when you try to turn the bottle back in. Most do not.
Ray |
In the world I live in if you don't own your own tank there is also a monthly rental fee.
I have never waited to have a tank filled, you also have the option of swapping your tank for one of theirs
A 20 or 40 pound tank will give you many hours of welding time, which is more then enough to repair or restore your own car. I mention buying a co2 tank which will have the proper DOT stamps and will allow it to be filled up to 90% of the stated pressure.
If this is your business then that's another matter entirely.
_________________
----------------------
Cars Currently Owned:
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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Tapered nozzles are 2nd in from the left.
Binzel 25 style (stated as a 11mm) actually measures closer to 1/2" from the one I have on hand . The non tapered version is huge.
Binzel 15 style (stated as 9.5mm) measures about 3/8" This is a really small gun and I only plan on using it with .025 wire.
In any event whomever's style of gun you have ,their tapered version will be about 1/8" smaller in diameter.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23102
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
Another way to save gas is to make sure your tank is turned off when feeding for a new roll.
I almost always use tapered down nozzles on 180-250 amp guns with a 10psi setting. This may explain why I can get away with 10psi. I use the logic of using the smallest nozzle before I encounter a issue. Most guns I'm aware of on even 110v machines are 180 amp so guns for the most part, start at a 180 amp rating. I just bought a Binzel 15 copy which has a super small nozzle so I may not be using a tapered down nozzle for that(under 10mm). I have yet to have a problem with this method. If I'm outside welding up a rust bucket, I'll use flux core or I have 2 sets of 4x8 plywood set up with handles attached to block the wind. Usually you just have to have a small shield very close to your weld pool. Opening up your the fingers on one of your hands can often help enough. Taping on some cardboard around the seam works too.
Some of the 'owned' exchange tanks I get have a diameter so different that it barely fits in the bottom holder for the tank. My 55 measures 24' not including the valve. Maybe it's a 60. |
The breeze shields I have gotten pretty good at....but a smaller diameter nozzle seems like a nice variation. Do you have a picture of one?
Thanks! Ray |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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Another way to save gas is to make sure your tank is turned off when feeding for a new roll.
I almost always use tapered down nozzles on 180-250 amp guns with a 10psi setting. This may explain why I can get away with 10psi. I use the logic of using the smallest nozzle before I encounter a issue. Most guns I'm aware of on even 110v machines are 180 amp so guns for the most part, start at a 180 amp rating. I just bought a Binzel 15 copy which has a super small nozzle so I may not be using a tapered down nozzle for that(under 10mm). I have yet to have a problem with this method. If I'm outside welding up a rust bucket, I'll use flux core or I have 2 sets of 4x8 plywood set up with handles attached to block the wind. Usually you just have to have a small shield very close to your weld pool. Opening up your the fingers on one of your hands can often help enough. Taping on some cardboard around the seam works too.
Some of the 'owned' exchange tanks I get have a diameter so different that it barely fits in the bottom holder for the tank. My 55 measures 24' not including the valve. Maybe it's a 60.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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