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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71706
Location: Phoenix 602
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 Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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Ok, I didn't realize that later 36hp engines that still had a 28 PCI still used the screw-in port on the right side of the carburetor with a metal pipe wrapped around.
I thought the left side of the carburetor was drilled out for the later style vacuum hose to connect, like a 28 PICT or later carb.
I can't really see that in your pics so thanks for the explanation.
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3481
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| You need to switch back the 36hp engine 28 PCI carb to use the stock distributor too - I don't think it will advance correctly with a 28 PICT. |
They are both a 28, both use the vacuum signal from the venturi. I have used both and I can't tell the difference, except for the fact that the 28PICT is a auto choke and does have better accelerator pump distribution ( better pump shot ). But it is a incorrect presentation on my engine so I wouldn't use it. I do like the 28PIC because it is a manual choke.
Everett, have you measured the vacuum signal through the range of the throttle opening to see if they were different from each other? |
I have not checked it but the 36hp Beetle distributor is dual advance and 28PICT ones are usually vacuum-only so I assumed they are different. |
I can assure you the numbers matching 36 hp engine in my 65 111 is a vacuum advance only. I know the 63 36hp engine is too. see below;
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/516081.jpg
this one too;
https://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q16/threespoke/standardkafer/literature/LIT265brocengine.jpg |
I wonder if that vacuum signal is different on that carb since it has a port on the left side? |
Which carburetor Everett, are you talking about has a port on the left side? The 28PICT has the port on the left side of the car, the 28PIC has the distributor vacuum port on the rt side of the car as shown below;
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/8_58bug/52.jpg.
The newer 36hp engine carburetors and distributors are just a little different as they use a ( in my case it's a 65 36 hp ) distributor from the 40ph engine which uses a vacuum hose instead of the screw in vacuum pipe to the carburetor. The newer 28PIC carburetor is different than the 1960 and older type for two reasons. The vacuum signal from the carburetor has a short vacuum elbow screw in pipe that goes to the left side of the carburetor and attaches to a small piece of vacuum hose to attach to the hard vacuum tube which is attached to the short vacuum hose to the distributor ( just like the 40hp). In short the hard line from the rt side of carburetor is bent around the backside of the carburetor and comes out on the left side of the carburetor and from it's short hose down to the distributor everything else is 40 hp.
The other difference on these newer 36 hp. carburetors is the fuel inlet, as they no longer have a screw in fuel line from the fuel pump, as they have a pressed in hard line to the carburetor air horn just like the 28PICT. The newer 36hp fuel pump is the same , only the discharge port has a screw in nipple to attach to the fuel hose instead of the old hard fuel line that was screwed in. In short, they were saving money so some parts could be interchanged between the two engines. |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71706
Location: Phoenix 602
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| You need to switch back the 36hp engine 28 PCI carb to use the stock distributor too - I don't think it will advance correctly with a 28 PICT. |
They are both a 28, both use the vacuum signal from the venturi. I have used both and I can't tell the difference, except for the fact that the 28PICT is a auto choke and does have better accelerator pump distribution ( better pump shot ). But it is a incorrect presentation on my engine so I wouldn't use it. I do like the 28PIC because it is a manual choke.
Everett, have you measured the vacuum signal through the range of the throttle opening to see if they were different from each other? |
I have not checked it but the 36hp Beetle distributor is dual advance and 28PICT ones are usually vacuum-only so I assumed they are different. |
I can assure you the numbers matching 36 hp engine in my 65 111 is a vacuum advance only. I know the 63 36hp engine is too. see below;
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/516081.jpg
this one too;
https://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q16/threespoke/standardkafer/literature/LIT265brocengine.jpg |
I wonder if that vacuum signal is different on that carb since it has a port on the left side?
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3481
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| You need to switch back the 36hp engine 28 PCI carb to use the stock distributor too - I don't think it will advance correctly with a 28 PICT. |
They are both a 28, both use the vacuum signal from the venturi. I have used both and I can't tell the difference, except for the fact that the 28PICT is a auto choke and does have better accelerator pump distribution ( better pump shot ). But it is a incorrect presentation on my engine so I wouldn't use it. I do like the 28PIC because it is a manual choke.
Everett, have you measured the vacuum signal through the range of the throttle opening to see if they were different from each other? |
I have not checked it but the 36hp Beetle distributor is dual advance and 28PICT ones are usually vacuum-only so I assumed they are different. |
I can assure you the numbers matching 36 hp engine in my 65 111 is a vacuum advance only. I know the 63 36hp engine is too. see below;
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/516081.jpg
this one too;
https://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q16/threespoke/standardkafer/literature/LIT265brocengine.jpg |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71706
Location: Phoenix 602
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| You need to switch back the 36hp engine 28 PCI carb to use the stock distributor too - I don't think it will advance correctly with a 28 PICT. |
They are both a 28, both use the vacuum signal from the venturi. I have used both and I can't tell the difference, except for the fact that the 28PICT is a auto choke and does have better accelerator pump distribution ( better pump shot ). But it is a incorrect presentation on my engine so I wouldn't use it. I do like the 28PIC because it is a manual choke.
Everett, have you measured the vacuum signal through the range of the throttle opening to see if they were different from each other? |
I have not checked it but the 36hp Beetle distributor is dual advance and 28PICT ones are usually vacuum-only so I assumed they are different.
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3481
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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According to the bulletin, you don't have to change the distributor if it's already a vacuum advance only distributor, only a combo distributor needs to be changed.
I guess they did this for the person who didn't want to use a manual choke |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6269
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
| Glenn Collier wrote: |
Sorry that I’ve taken so long to gat back to you all.
Is the recommend distributor for the 36horse a vacuumed advance or can I use
A mechanical advance?
I’ve a 28 pict carbie on the car.
Or, should I change both carbie and distributor at the same time?
Thank you |
VW approved the swap for 36 horse engines from the stock 28PCI manual choke carb and original distributor, to the 40 horse 28PICT automatic choke carb and matching 40 horse vacuum only distributor. So, you could just seek out the correct 40 horse era distributor and go that route.
The carb you have will not correctly operate the vacuum advance on the 36 horse Beetle carb. You could swap both the carb and distributor out to what is correct for your engine.
It is likely the engine would run fine with the carb you have and either an 019 or even 009 distributor. It wouldn't be matched so you may experience minor hesitation. |
When did VW do this. My 1965 111 still has it's original 28PCI manual choke on it's original 36hp engine? |
VW Technical Bulletin K12. It is posted on theSamba for all to read. I don't think VW ever built any 36 horse engines with the 28pict. |
I didn't think so either, but you were the one who said it. |
I did not say VW installed the 28PICT on 36 horse engines. I said they approved the change and provided instructions on making the modifications to an owners vehicle. Here is the link to Service Bulletin K12.
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3481
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
| Glenn Collier wrote: |
Sorry that I’ve taken so long to gat back to you all.
Is the recommend distributor for the 36horse a vacuumed advance or can I use
A mechanical advance?
I’ve a 28 pict carbie on the car.
Or, should I change both carbie and distributor at the same time?
Thank you |
VW approved the swap for 36 horse engines from the stock 28PCI manual choke carb and original distributor, to the 40 horse 28PICT automatic choke carb and matching 40 horse vacuum only distributor. So, you could just seek out the correct 40 horse era distributor and go that route.
The carb you have will not correctly operate the vacuum advance on the 36 horse Beetle carb. You could swap both the carb and distributor out to what is correct for your engine.
It is likely the engine would run fine with the carb you have and either an 019 or even 009 distributor. It wouldn't be matched so you may experience minor hesitation. |
When did VW do this. My 1965 111 still has it's original 28PCI manual choke on it's original 36hp engine? |
VW Technical Bulletin K12. It is posted on theSamba for all to read. I don't think VW ever built any 36 horse engines with the 28pict. |
I didn't think so either, but you were the one who said it. |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6269
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
| Glenn Collier wrote: |
Sorry that I’ve taken so long to gat back to you all.
Is the recommend distributor for the 36horse a vacuumed advance or can I use
A mechanical advance?
I’ve a 28 pict carbie on the car.
Or, should I change both carbie and distributor at the same time?
Thank you |
VW approved the swap for 36 horse engines from the stock 28PCI manual choke carb and original distributor, to the 40 horse 28PICT automatic choke carb and matching 40 horse vacuum only distributor. So, you could just seek out the correct 40 horse era distributor and go that route.
The carb you have will not correctly operate the vacuum advance on the 36 horse Beetle carb. You could swap both the carb and distributor out to what is correct for your engine.
It is likely the engine would run fine with the carb you have and either an 019 or even 009 distributor. It wouldn't be matched so you may experience minor hesitation. |
When did VW do this. My 1965 111 still has it's original 28PCI manual choke on it's original 36hp engine? |
VW Technical Bulletin K12. It is posted on theSamba for all to read. I don't think VW ever built any 36 horse engines with the 28pict.
_________________
| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3481
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| Glenn Collier wrote: |
Sorry that I’ve taken so long to gat back to you all.
Is the recommend distributor for the 36horse a vacuumed advance or can I use
A mechanical advance?
I’ve a 28 pict carbie on the car.
Or, should I change both carbie and distributor at the same time?
Thank you |
VW approved the swap for 36 horse engines from the stock 28PCI manual choke carb and original distributor, to the 40 horse 28PICT automatic choke carb and matching 40 horse vacuum only distributor. So, you could just seek out the correct 40 horse era distributor and go that route.
The carb you have will not correctly operate the vacuum advance on the 36 horse Beetle carb. You could swap both the carb and distributor out to what is correct for your engine.
It is likely the engine would run fine with the carb you have and either an 019 or even 009 distributor. It wouldn't be matched so you may experience minor hesitation. |
When did VW do this. My 1965 111 still has it's original 28PCI manual choke on it's original 36hp engine? |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 6269
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
|
|
| Glenn Collier wrote: |
Sorry that I’ve taken so long to gat back to you all.
Is the recommend distributor for the 36horse a vacuumed advance or can I use
A mechanical advance?
I’ve a 28 pict carbie on the car.
Or, should I change both carbie and distributor at the same time?
Thank you |
VW approved the swap for 36 horse engines from the stock 28PCI manual choke carb and original distributor, to the 40 horse 28PICT automatic choke carb and matching 40 horse vacuum only distributor. So, you could just seek out the correct 40 horse era distributor and go that route.
The carb you have will not correctly operate the vacuum advance on the 36 horse Beetle carb. You could swap both the carb and distributor out to what is correct for your engine.
It is likely the engine would run fine with the carb you have and either an 019 or even 009 distributor. It wouldn't be matched so you may experience minor hesitation.
_________________
| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3481
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:03 am Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| You need to switch back the 36hp engine 28 PCI carb to use the stock distributor too - I don't think it will advance correctly with a 28 PICT. |
They are both a 28, both use the vacuum signal from the venturi. I have used both and I can't tell the difference, except for the fact that the 28PICT is a auto choke and does have better accelerator pump distribution ( better pump shot ). But it is a incorrect presentation on my engine so I wouldn't use it. I do like the 28PIC because it is a manual choke.
Everett, have you measured the vacuum signal through the range of the throttle opening to see if they were different from each other? |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71706
Location: Phoenix 602
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3481
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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| Glenn Collier wrote: |
Sorry that I’ve taken so long to gat back to you all.
Is the recommend distributor for the 36horse a vacuumed advance or can I use
A mechanical advance?
I’ve a 28 pict carbie on the car.
Or, should I change both carbie and distributor at the same time?
Thank you |
The vacuum advance came with the 36 hp engine. The ported vacuum advance will give your engine better drivability and mileage and that's why the factory put it on those engines. |
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panicman
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2011
Posts: 2669
Location: Canby, OR
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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| You can use a mechanical advance, you’ll just need to plug the vacuum port on the carb. |
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Glenn Collier
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2015
Posts: 7
Location: AUSTRALIA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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Sorry that I’ve taken so long to gat back to you all.
Is the recommend distributor for the 36horse a vacuumed advance or can I use
A mechanical advance?
I’ve a 28 pict carbie on the car.
Or, should I change both carbie and distributor at the same time?
Thank you.
Okay, thanks for that information folks
Last edited by Glenn Collier on Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3481
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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| tasb wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
That's a Garbe Lahmeyer and used on some of the last 36hp and into the 40hp. |
Is that what I have on my 65 36hp? BTW everything is matching numbers car. Original Engine, carb, fuel pump, distributor, coil, generator etc.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/516081.jpg |
That carburetor and distributor are definitely not a factory match even for a late 36 domestic engine. The distributor is from 1966-1969 era, sorry. The fuel pump also appears to be a very early version. |
Sorry guy, everything is all original. I knew the original owner and he gave me the full history, plus the parts he had to take off ( and later I put back on ) to get the car through U.S. Customs, and I've owned the car FIFTY YEARS. The only people that have worked on it are the factory, the original owner and myself and he never even had the carburetor off.
Last edited by Helfen on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6833
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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Vacuum canister comparison. On the left the 111 series used with ZV/JU 4 R 3(L) and the 111 905 205 M and N. On the right the 113 series canister used with the 113 905 205 K, M, T and a few others.
Helfen, please post your pics to the Samba gallery so that they will stick around for awhile.
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1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Member# 2059
Last edited by tasb on Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13690
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
That's a Garbe Lahmeyer and used on some of the last 36hp and into the 40hp. |
Is that what I have on my 65 36hp? BTW everything is matching numbers car. Original Engine, carb, fuel pump, distributor, coil, generator etc.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/516081.jpg |
It looks like a 111905205L or M based on the vacuum can style. That would be a year correct distributor for a 65. You can get a mirror or yank it out to read the number
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6833
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Recommended distributor for a 36hp motor |
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[quote="Helfen"]
| Glenn wrote: |
That's a Garbe Lahmeyer and used on some of the last 36hp and into the 40hp. |
Is that what I have on my 65 36hp? BTW everything is matching numbers car. Original Engine, carb, fuel pump, distributor, coil, generator etc.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/516081.jpg[/quote
That carburetor and distributor are definitely not a factory match even for a late 36 domestic engine. The distributor is from 1966-1969 era, sorry. The fuel pump also appears to be a very early version.
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Roads Scholar
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
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