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Christian 511x
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2018
Posts: 7
Location: Grants pass oregon
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 Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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Stock arms are ok, need to be beefed up to keep to keep from bending
A good set of 3x3 are a lot stronger than stock arms
And your question about 1 inch longer arms is a trick question, it all depends on c.f. type, axel length, shock placement and length, type of stub axles. Without all the info it can't be answered . It will cost you $200 to $ 400 for every inch over stock travel you want to go. |
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Mal evolent
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2009
Posts: 2923
Location: San Antonio, Nuevo Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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just ban this troll. same thread a hundred times.
_________________
73 Beetle Baja, Ghia front brakes, Type 3 rear brakes, 2220 ( 94 X 80 ), Weber Progressive, Bosch SVDA, '97 Mustang seats
Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Index |
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mhisel
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Los Angeles metro
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| Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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So...
Any update with this build? pics of the +1 trailing arms?
Anything... |
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craigman
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 2425
Location: redding
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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 This is getting funny! |
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Fenix
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016
Posts: 468
Location: St Louis
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| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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| greggl4321 wrote: |
what about a bugyzla conversion  |
Considering their website domain is for sale. Owner passed away about a year and 3 months ago, son sold most of the remaining inventory off a couple months ago, so good luck with that. Also unless I'm missing something a bugzyla simply converts a late model Ball joint beam car to accept the more desirable in a baja link-pin beam. Still not an A-Arm conversion.
Here download a user manual and memorize it, then get back to us. After all I remember a woman once told my father and grandfather who had been dairy farmers all their lives and at the time had one of the most modern setup ups at any Wisconsin family farm the because she read a book on raising cattle that she knew more about farming than they could ever learn from doing it for 50+ years. Maybe you two are related.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/bug67models.php
If you would listen to Dusty he did a rather good breakdown of them to another member a while back. |
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Fenix
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016
Posts: 468
Location: St Louis
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| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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| greggl4321 wrote: |
I think dusty may be wrong about them being stronger.
The longer the length the more leverage increases as I was hearing in some thread somewhere, iirc. Not travel causing the damage. However, I am not certain either way and wanted to corroborate.
[ |
Stock arms are two pieces of stamped mild steel, spot-welded every 1-1.5 inches along the perimeter. 3x3's are fully tig welded chromoly tubing and plate steel. You could have a 12"x12" offset and still be stronger than stock just based on the flexmodulous of the materials and the strength of the construction/bonding. Again, real-world experience and an understanding of the materials and manufacturing processes that only owning, building, and modifying first hand can teach you. Unless you want to get the 4-6 years of mechanical engineering degree and then another 3-5 years of manufacturing experience. |
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veeweeman
Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2009
Posts: 940
Location: New Port Richey, FL
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| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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heywebonya
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2010
Posts: 823
Location: Portage, MI
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| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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Gregg, What color is your bug? What year? How do you like the seats?
_________________
If I knew what I was doing; I wouldn't be building a buggy! |
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greggl4321
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2017
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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| what about a bugyzla conversion |
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Fenix
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016
Posts: 468
Location: St Louis
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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| greggl4321 wrote: |
I think dusty may be wrong about them being stronger.
Looking to a cheap car that really has potential and can scoot.
[ |
First off: Insulting one of the most the most technically experienced contributes on here...Smart!
Second: Once again an Oxymoronic statement when talking about a 60 yr old vehicle platform.
The reason it seams like we are conflating all of your ideas is because you have Campaign dreams on a rain-water budget. We are trying to be realists and help you understand what could work for your budget. But once again like most of the individuals your age and region you cannot understand being told you cant have something without putting in the work/funds to do it.
Get a Car first, then get back to us with the questions after you see what you have to work with and what the parts/skills needed to fabricate what you want will be. If you are not willing to take advise from experienced builders/fabricators and are not willing to learn to wrench/weld/cut, grind, etc on it yourself then go back and buy a cheep early 2000's Honda or Toyota. Still will be far more economical for a daily driver. Even in in LA they are under $2000.
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/cto/d/2004-honda-civic-registered/6441094717.html
And considering my best friend still drive an identical car as a daily driver...even with 500K+ miles with out any mechanical issues other than replacing the clutch twice now I believe, it will last you well into your years of living out of it.
If you move up to 3K man you can get some pearls. I mean this one doesn't even have 90K miles on it. https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/d/honda-civic-only-90k-miles/6444501780.html
Shoot, I would have sold you my 03 4.7 ltr quad cab ram for $2,500. It had 200K miles and not a single issue. It had a 3" Dominator Lift kit with 265-70-17 tires and still only had of total articulation of 10" front and 12" rear...I had no problem doing going anywhere I wanted or at what I felt was a safe speed for the terrain. By the way that kit was $8,900, as a bolt on kit and took two of us 6 hours to install. By the way the big ticket item roughly 1/2 the cost of the kit was the same King Shocks that most of the long travel Bajas and Rails use. |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5820
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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| Quote: |
| 4 grand is more than enough to upgrade the suspension. |
Now he's giving out advice. 
| Quote: |
| So why do 3x3 arms get less travel than 1" over arms? I must be missing something |
Yup. You are missing something.
The builder of the 3 x 3 that gets less than the race +1 suspension simply does not know how to build it to maximize travel. And likely does not have the $$ to throw into it.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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greggl4321
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2017
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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| Vanapplebomb wrote: |
| greggl4321 wrote: |
Sorry dusty, I may be confused on something.
Modok,
What doesn't need to need to be changed with the 1" over arms vs the 3x3?
I read like 17+ inches of travel are possible with 1" over arms.
Feedback please ? |
Either way, everything suspension related needs to be changed. VW designed the stock components to be exactly enough for stock application. Change anything and the whole system has to follow. You can’t do some here and nothing there. Just the nature of the beast.
Greg, this isn’t a rock crawling truck/Jeep. Do you realize how much travel 17” is for a vehicle weighing ~2000lbs? I think you need a reality check here man.
To actually use 17” you pretty much need to be a professional race driver...or it’s just a waste of time and money. With your 4000 buck budget, I’m sorry, but 17” is not in your budget when you consider the cost of upgrading everything to match. You could drop 4 grand alone just on suspension if 17” is your goal...and then what about the rest of the car??? 4 grand is very reasonable for a Baja bug modified for weekend off road fun, and you will have a blast.
Your talking class 5 unlimited Baja bug stuff, but you need to be thinking more like class 11 style Baja bug for your budget and skill level. |
4 grand is more than enough to upgrade the suspension.
That's what I plan on the whole gig, period.
A car here recently sold that had a king link front and 3x3 rear for 800, or less! It was a chopped top, which is bad to buy according to a trusted friend, but couldn't a body have been be affixed to the pan chassis? Or would the 3x3 need redoing.
I'll likely buy a Baja with already modified suspension front or rear suspension and then work on the other end.
I'm exuberant to hear of how much fun I'll be having in a basic Baja bug.
Can't wait
So why do 3x3 arms get less travel than 1" over arms? I must be missing something
If just stock arms are used how would you personally mod them?
I'd be happy with around 7-10 inches of travel. And think it's possible. |
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Vanapplebomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5572
Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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| greggl4321 wrote: |
Sorry dusty, I may be confused on something.
Modok,
What doesn't need to need to be changed with the 1" over arms vs the 3x3?
I read like 17+ inches of travel are possible with 1" over arms.
Feedback please ? |
Either way, everything suspension related needs to be changed. VW designed the stock components to be exactly enough for stock application. Change anything and the whole system has to follow. You can’t do some here and nothing there. Just the nature of the beast.
Greg, this isn’t a rock crawling truck/Jeep. Do you realize how much travel 17” is for a vehicle weighing ~2000lbs? I think you need a reality check here man.
To actually use 17” you pretty much need to be a professional race driver...or it’s just a waste of time and money. With your 4000 buck budget, I’m sorry, but 17” is not in your budget when you consider the cost of upgrading everything to match. You could drop 4 grand alone just on suspension if 17” is your goal...and then what about the rest of the car??? 4 grand is very reasonable for a Baja bug modified for weekend off road fun, and you will have a blast.
Your talking class 5 unlimited Baja bug stuff, but you need to be thinking more like class 11 style Baja bug for your budget and skill level.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5820
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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[quote="greggl4321"]Can someone answer the questions[quote]
Gregg...Shut up!
If I keep trying to lead the horse (you) to water, I'm gonna wind up drowning the damned horse before he learns to drink!
I'm done with you.
Goodbye.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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greggl4321
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2017
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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Sorry dusty, I may be confused on something.
Modok,
What doesn't need to need to be changed with the 1" over arms vs the 3x3?
I read like 17+ inches of travel are possible with 1" over arms.
Feedback please ? |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27713
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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The 1" longer trailing arms MAINLY allow the use of 31 or 32" tires.
In stock form you put on a 31" tire and the tire is touching the tube where the torsion bar sticks out in the spring plate, AND when fully compressed the tire rubs the front side of the inner fender well. 1" longer solves both these problems and lets you put the big tires on without modifying much else.
There ARE other ways to do it with stock trailing arms but IMO it's not better or easier.
It's also been theorized that CV joints tend to break the cage when tr4ansitioning through 0 degrees with force on them. If the trailing arms are extended back just a little the CV's will never be at exactly 0 degrees and this MAY be a good thing.
Do you need longer axles? probably not, but that would be a question for whoever made the trailing arms and what kind of CV's and transmission you end up with. Stock CV max angle is 13 degrees. |
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heywebonya
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2010
Posts: 823
Location: Portage, MI
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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Gregg
I cannot understand how you consistently troll the Samba and refuse to listen to experts. Claiming " I heard..." or some other wacky ideas (like trying to replace a tunnel) and ignoring several experienced builders and inspectors.
Your posts are interesting like a car wreck, but nothing every is resolved.
-Jeff
_________________
If I knew what I was doing; I wouldn't be building a buggy! |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Rear IRS Suspension options |
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I think greggl4321 is more about getting attention and less about building a baja bug. He doesn't have a baja bug and has no intentions of getting a baja bug. He just wants to talk about them incessantly posting anything that pops into his head at any given moment. To defiantly reject any advice that anybody gives him is only to get a reaction and more attention. To say dustymojave is wrong only proves that this isn't about building a baja bug but just to annoy people into posting more and more.
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~  |
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cbeck
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2573
Location: high ridge, mo
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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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