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Using Two AC Condensers in Series
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Rhalcorn
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

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Does anyone know who makes these condensers? They are for aftermarket ac on beetles, they are approx 14" and have #8 fittings on both ends. To connect two condensers in series you would have to have #8 fitting on both ends of one condenser and all I have ever seen have a #8 inlet and a #6 outlet. Also you would need a tube and fin type like the ones shown to mount them horizontally as the capillary type can only be mounted vertically or the refrigerant oil will not flow properly.
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

Westified wrote:
One tip is cover your fresh air intake in the front grille if you havent replaced the vent flap seals in the dash. Otherwise you will have hot outside air blowing in your front heater vents. Your AC won't be able to overcome this. I used a heavy duty trash bag over front grille intake vent. This is behind the front grille which you must remove to see the intake vent.


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khughes
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
My A/C works fine, but I'd just like to make it as efficient as possible.


Ah. Yeah mine is fine too, as long as the temp is below 105F, above that and it struggles. When it's 115F+, it is OK as long as I pull from the garage, and don't stop and park anywhere. When it's >140F in the van from sitting in the sun, it really doesn't cut it. So I'm seriously looking at adding a remote condenser this year. Along with the usual laundry list of projects/upgrades sitting on the shelf Rolling Eyes
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

My A/C works fine, but I'd just like to make it as efficient as possible.
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khughes
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
Has anyone found a parallel flow evaporator similar in size to the factory rear units?


I never was able to find one when I rebuilt my A/C. It's a pretty odd size. You can have yours flushed and repaired if it's leaking, if you have a good A/C shop nearby.
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Westified
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

I wiil have to check my temps coming out of the vents. One tip is cover your fresh air intake in the front grille if you havent replaced the vent flap seals in the dash. Otherwise you will have hot outside air blowing in your front heater vents. Your AC won't be able to overcome this. I used a heavy duty trash bag over front grille intake vent. This is behind the front grille which you must remove to see the intake vent.

Regarding white wrap on the poptop, removal of that every year will be a chore. You need a heat gun and some adhesive remover. But first you must use high quality wrap or it will come off in little pieces instead of a big sheet.

Regarding the rear evaporator, my shop couldn't find a replacement. I think that is the only part they reused.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

Has anyone found a parallel flow evaporator similar in size to the factory rear units?
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kourt
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

MrTibbs wrote:
Kourt, what type of improvement did you see w/ the r134? I'm in a similar boat here w/ the Austin weather. I kept the rear evap unit, but did a full referb on the system 2 years ago.
- new hoses
- new condensor
- flushed old evap out, etc...

Things work really well up to about the high 80s, but then the system doesn't keep up.

I also have a NOS expansion valve that I may try in the system in case my original one is no longer up to snuff.


Keep in mind I'm using a SmallCar front AC system.

When using RedTek, my compressor would run 100% of the time on a 100 degree day, or an 80 degree day. The combined system would never reach the point of cycling the compressor on/off in accordance with its expansion valve feedback system. Vent air temps would be 20 degrees below ambient at best.

When using R134a, the compressor works hard to cool things down and then it starts cycling on/off properly, putting less wear on all parts involved. Vent air temps are 35 degrees below ambient.

I still keep RedTek around for testing and emergencies, but I'm back on the R134 bandwagon.

kourt
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

Westified wrote:
...What Temps are you guys getting coming out of the evaporator in the rear?


Using R12... On a hot day in Tucson (+100°) I'll get 40° air coming out of the overhead:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If I aim an IR thermometer into the void and hit the evaporator the number is much lower.

Despite future obsolescence I am tempted to stay with R12. I never had to add any in the 8 years since the system was last charged... I just hope the shop doing the work this time around is as successful.
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dart330
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

I rebuilt my entire system with R134A a couple years ago. Included a new parallel flow condenser, receiver/dryer, expansion valve, barrier hoses, and compressor. It works well until your pushing 100 degrees on the TX highways, also have ceramic tinting.

Highly recommend the GoWesty Condensor kit if you go that route, makes mounting very easy and it includes the now needed extension hose.
https://www.gowesty.com/product/air-conditioning/24380/high-efficiency-a-c-condenser-

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MrTibbs
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

kourt wrote:
I have a friend who did this, but the second condenser is behind the fuel tank, where there is a sort of bulkhead that things can be mounted to. His AC is original Westy headbanger (in the rear) but he's got a Subaru and a parallel flow front condenser. So far it seems to work well for him. I've given this some thought as well, as I want to control those high side pressures.

I've done Redtek and it's a disappointment in truly hot climates (Texas). Back to R134 and things are work well, but it's a higher pressure refrigerant.

kourt


Kourt, what type of improvement did you see w/ the r134? I'm in a similar boat here w/ the Austin weather. I kept the rear evap unit, but did a full referb on the system 2 years ago.
- new hoses
- new condensor
- flushed old evap out, etc...

Things work really well up to about the high 80s, but then the system doesn't keep up.

I also have a NOS expansion valve that I may try in the system in case my original one is no longer up to snuff.
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AceTaylor
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

Just curious. If one does a wrap, can it be taken off for the winter months without harm to the paint?
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

Try the white paint or wrap first. I think you’ll be surprised and may avoid the other measures.
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Westified
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips Dobryan and Ahwahnee. I was thinking of white vehicle wrap for the top of the poptop instead of paint. Also insulating the undersode of the poptop with a new headliner. Going to see if they can get Aerogel insulation. Used by NASA. I am also considering a double layer top like the tropical top I had on my Land Rover. Get a sheet of Starboard and mount it on my roof rack bars. The only downside of that is it probably wont fit in my garage unless I remove it. I will test a couple of these this summer sith my heat gun. This wiil be cheaper and simpler than dual AC or dual condensers.
I am hoping the tint will solve the problem. I am getting like Ahwahnee
since I am 72 and want to spent less time fixing and more time enjoying life. This corona virus has made me realize even more how precious our time is here on earth. Since I am stuck at home now I am doing some Vanagon work so I am ready to go when this is over.

What Temps are you guys getting coming out of the evaporator in the rear?
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

Westified wrote:
...I do need to retint my windows with that new ceramic tint...


That made a huge difference in mine.
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

Westified wrote:
Any suggestions on how to insulate the poptop? Mine is painted tan. We have 8 months of brutal heat and humidity in Miami.


Apologies to the OP for the hijack.

This really helped cut down the heat from my pop top. Easy to do with spray paint if you go this route.

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khughes
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

Steve M. wrote:
khughes wrote:
MarkWard wrote:
Steve M. wrote:
Didn't the original design have an upper condenser for the larger upper opening and a smaller one for the lower opening?


Some of the early dealer Ac had this arrangement. I imagine they believed there would be no air flow between the grills.


Yeah, but it was all one condenser. My '86 dealer a/c installation came with one. Actually smaller area/volume which is kind of the reverse of what's needed.



Hmm...yes and no. If you added a second condenser it would be connected by rubber hoses, but both running on the pressure from one compressor..
The lower condenser is a separate set of condenser fins from the larger upper one just connected by tubing, but both running on pressure from one compressor.
Same difference isn't it?


Actually, no, it was all hard tubing - a single integral condenser. There were no horizontal tube/fins behind the tin separating the grills, just the vertical tubes connecting the upper and lower fin areas. Not two separate pieces at all. Overall dimensions were the same as the later condensers, just a chunk of fins/tubes missing in the middle. So less heat transfer area than the later condensers with the same dimensions, but with added fins behind the tin. Adding a "second" condenser would increase heat transfer area even further. Here in Phoenix, I wouldn't want to add anything else in front of the radiator, so it would need to be elsewhere. But when it's 118F, I could certainly use some extra condenser power.
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

Here in hot and humid Miami i am running r134a with a parallel flow condenser. It is not cool enough for me. I do need to retint my windows with that new ceramic tint. My old tint has faded to nothing. I had my system redone a feww years ago with barrier hose, 709 sanden compressor etc. my AC guy (an AC only shop) who is very good and has worked on vanagons suggested a second condensor under the van with an electric fan. This would be opposite the propane tank in the frame rails. He also said he could do dual AC, front and rear with 2 condensers and 2 evaporators. I am going to repaint my tan windows out and replace the window seals and retint first. If that doesnt work then i will consider dual AC or dual condensors. I have also noted heat comes through the uninsulated poptop. Any suggestions on how to insulate the poptop? Mine is painted tan. We have 8 months of brutal heat and humidity in Miami.
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vanis13
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

I'm on (one) 16x20" parallel with 134 and it does very well in NM 100+deg heat.
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Two AC Condensers in Series Reply with quote

khughes wrote:
MarkWard wrote:
Steve M. wrote:
Didn't the original design have an upper condenser for the larger upper opening and a smaller one for the lower opening?


Some of the early dealer Ac had this arrangement. I imagine they believed there would be no air flow between the grills.


Yeah, but it was all one condenser. My '86 dealer a/c installation came with one. Actually smaller area/volume which is kind of the reverse of what's needed.



Hmm...yes and no. If you added a second condenser it would be connected by rubber hoses, but both running on the pressure from one compressor..
The lower condenser is a separate set of condenser fins from the larger upper one just connected by tubing, but both running on pressure from one compressor.
Same difference isn't it?
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