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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52558
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 Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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| carls2u wrote: |
Omg I am so glad I finally got in! I have an 86 Westy with the GW2.3 engine. In my rebuild I did the big brakes, Fox shocks with lift and 16” GW wheels, new CV boots. The other day just driving normal around town the axle popped out. Had NO connection to turn the wheels. Pushed the van off the road. Then it went back and I had 1st gear. Drove it to mechanic. Next day he drove it around with no issues. Put it up on the lift and in investigating pulled on the axle and it popped out. Has Anyone else had this issue with the lift/wheels. He called GW and they said they had heard no issues with it. So they have no solution for it. His solution was to rebuild the axles with genuine German axels (the ones on it were aftermarket) the original axles had a deeper groove for the clips I guess. Has anyone else experienced this and have a solution?  |
You need axle shafts with the correct distance between the grooves and you need to be sure the snap rings have not previously been spread too much if you are reusing them and you need to be careful not to spread them an iota more than necessary when putting them back on. Note that a raised van may require longer axle shafts. |
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carls2u
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2019
Posts: 13
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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Omg I am so glad I finally got in! I have an 86 Westy with the GW2.3 engine. In my rebuild I did the big brakes, Fox shocks with lift and 16” GW wheels, new CV boots. The other day just driving normal around town the axle popped out. Had NO connection to turn the wheels. Pushed the van off the road. Then it went back and I had 1st gear. Drove it to mechanic. Next day he drove it around with no issues. Put it up on the lift and in investigating pulled on the axle and it popped out. Has Anyone else had this issue with the lift/wheels. He called GW and they said they had heard no issues with it. So they have no solution for it. His solution was to rebuild the axles with genuine German axels (the ones on it were aftermarket) the original axles had a deeper groove for the clips I guess. Has anyone else experienced this and have a solution?
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To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.
'86 Westy |
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tjet
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3727
Location: Az
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bobhill8 
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2017
Posts: 791
Location: MA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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| thanks for posting the link to the grease needle fitting - been looking to get one of those. |
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tjet
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3727
Location: Az
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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I like to squirt some grease into all my CV's every oil change (along with top of the trans & diff). I have a needle fitting that fits between the boot & axle (note, I don't install clamps on the axle side of the boot)
https://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?id=DL10547&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
While you are there, be sure to grease the shifter rods where they go thru the slide bracket things. |
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hardway
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2012
Posts: 496
Location: Fidalgo Island
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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I have serviced my share of CV joints. In my experience both the T2s and T3s came with Allen bolts on the axles even when their contemporary Beetles and Rabbits came with XZN drive (12 point) bolts. For whatever reason the vans did not receive the newer technology fasteners on the production line. As far as I know even the latest T3s did not come with XZN bolts. Of course the CV boot kits came with the new style bolts and I have always updated them since the 12 points are more resistant to camming and rounding out.
I just serviced a 91 Westy last week with a clacking right axle. The inboard joint was dry. The grease had fossilized. The outboard joint was normal. The boots were intact. It had 12 point bolts. It is not the first time I have seen a dry joint. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52558
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:29 am Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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| djkeev wrote: |
So with the limited sampling of what seem to be original CV bolts, I think the picture is emerging that VW never switched to triple square heads during the production run of the Vanagon.
It seems that if you encounter triple squares, someone has been in there before you.
Hex head are a sign of being original, serviced long ago with OEM parts with hex heads or simply serviced reusing the original bolts.
Dave |
My '91 came with triple squares no ifs ands or buts, and I was long used to them by that time as I had them on both my '74 T2 and my '73 T181. Can't say the bay came with them, but the T-181 did as the bolts were the correct length for that application, about 1/8" longer than the Bay and Vanagon bolts. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10422
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:27 am Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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On Sat I helped a friend change a tranny side flange seal on his early 91 Westy. The CV boots looked like still original VW, all CV bolts were Allen type.
I rubbed the grime off on the CV joint we had to pull away to get at the flange, date code 3390, right for his door sticker build date of 09/90
Mark |
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 8466
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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FWIW: I just recently got into a pair of NOS, original boxed Lobro CV joints+boot kits.
Date code: 46th week of 1988...with decent looking boots & hex head bolts... <shrug>
- Dave
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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mtnhome
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 622
Location: Summit County, CO
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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Back when Vanagons were more common at the u pull yards I would pull the axles off vanagons and Porsche 944's. Usually paid $15-18 per axle. Actually found one set of 944 axles with cv's bagged in the trunk of one. Picked up a parts cleaner this summer and decided to tear them down see what I had. I only found about 3-4 torn boot and only a couple of joints with noticable wear. One of the axles was aftermarket with no name joints but still in good shape. All of the intack boots are very pliable and seem in great shape.
Given the recent talk about the poor quality of boots and cv's.
The short axles were from a Porsche 924 but the CV joints seem to be the same as 944's.
Still have 2 more axles to go...
I think i have enough to last me for a long time.
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'84 Westy, '93 Subaru ej22 and Subarugears 5speed
Build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=763098&highlight= |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17882
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:42 am Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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this thread made me look at a joint i had on the shelf, attached to a torched axle 
the bus it came from was VERY original. granted it was a bay window. anyway, single groove (toward hub flange) 211 part number and the center has NO raised area (that would normally go toward the axle shaft)
still had the "remove me" cupped washer
it seems that bay and vanagon CV's are the same, but the new ones for bay are a 251 prefix.
i was going to dig up a set to clean up for the van, but i think i'd rather find a newer/updated set with the raised area that goes toward the axle shaft
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10422
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:54 am Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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That 4 digit week/year was a common manufacturing date marking scheme, less so these days.
I've observed its correlation to CV markings in my family's various VWs many times.
It was pretty standard in the 70s/80s/90s in my profession.
Mark
| djkeev wrote: |
| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
Looking at one of your joint photos it is stamped 4986.
That is week 49 of 1986, well into Model Year 1987 vehicle production....
Mark |
Interesting, I'l need to double check that engine number and see if I can dredge up the chassis # of that scrapped unit.
Where did you learn about the dating system?
Dave |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:17 am Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
Looking at one of your joint photos it is stamped 4986.
That is week 49 of 1986, well into Model Year 1987 vehicle production.
I've owned a lot of Vanagons over 30 years now. I'd say the Allen head CV bolts were stock most years.
Mark
| djkeev wrote: |
......
So I learned from John that these axles only ran for 8 years. And from the units speedometer I know it was for 61,000 miles.
Are they original? I don't rightly know but I do know that the unit was a VERY early 86.
From what I've been told of production numbers back then, 20,000 or so were produced in a month, from the engine number I'm guessing it was Probably built in the first week of August 1985.
The engine number is only in the 4,000’s, the first year of the 2.1 engine.
Somewhere I have the title, I'll need to root around and find it.
I guess the question is, when did VW begin installing the triple square?
..............
I'm going with factory installed hex bolts in August 1985.
You are free to feel otherwise of course.
If you have a verified production change date to triple squares, let us know.
Dave |
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Interesting, I'l need to double check that engine number and see if I can dredge up the chassis # of that scrapped unit.
Where did you learn about the dating system?
Dave
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 24188
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:59 am Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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Break in grease in CVS sounds like made up internet shinola. I don’t recall any maintenance schedule on any IRS VW TO regrease CVS after a break in interval.
I think it’s an inspection of boots for flaws every 30k if memory serves correctly
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52558
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| Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: CV's, Axles and Boots...... they are only original once! |
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| djkeev wrote: |
I was on Westfalia.org
Dave |
Is the axle assembly shown in the Vanagon Bentley a Beetle Axle?
Here is a drawing of a Bay Window CV from Ratwell.com, note you can see the projection lines for the bevel on the axle side of the joint. One the same page he also shows a joint assembled exactly the opposite.
People get away running these CV assembled all different kind of way and if you aren't running them at such a steep angle that the bevel is needed for clearancing, then you will get away with it just fine. |
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