Csp linkage rods to short for 2276

[jpaull]

[sled]

there is absolutely no way that linkage solves any of the sync issues. having the rods be radically different lengths doesn't help, and putting that dogleg in the rod helps it clear the alternator stand, but it doesn't change the effective angle of the rod when installed.

every linkage style has its shortcomings and its benefits for performance, except the synclink which works 100% correctly.

...its only drawback is its aesthetics, oh and cost for some.
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drive your split.

[dntchav]

Looks like it solves the angle issue but $250-$275 it better

[dntchav]

Looks like it solves the angle issue but $250-$275 it better

[dntchav]

Has anyone tried the new Jaycee bellcrank the rods look twice as thick as the csp plus heim joints and one rod bent to equal out any angles ?

[HotStreetVw]

I've run the cross bar linkages but they seem excessive, clumsy/ugly. How about a Berg mounted using the wrong fan shroud holes? lol The Berg does look cool though if done right.

My vote goes to the CSP bellcrank. Simple design. I've made several modifications to mine. Carbon rods, cut and turned off the bell crank and made my own to get more travel to support longer arms on the ITBs.
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4inBhore
50 Split - 2724cc NA. Haltech injected
62 Notchback - 2542cc Turbo WIP

[Ohio Tom]

The error in a bell-crank linkage is no better/worse than a crossbar style.

Manifolds are offset to some degree, thus making the cross bar less than perfect.
Add in the crappy bushings, and mounts and the dumb, long, flexing arm extensions that always bend and they don't win my vote..
How many times has someone floored thier cross bar linkage motor only to have it bend the arms.

The bellcrank is a Pull/Pull style. they naturally stay in-sync with warmups. The heads grow equally, The arms are long and therefore any angles are not great in most installs.

Manifold style and height can play into ANY linkage design/style.

To each his own...

[Alstrup]

The bearing upgrade on the regular cross bar systems is a very good investment. Personally I use bronze bushings most of the time which is a cheaper solution. (On the CB linkage) They typically last 18-25000 miles dependant on enviroment. Then yank the bushings out and press new in and youre good for another 20000 miles.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[chrisflstf]

Thats the problem with center pull, if the angles are different, the carbs will never be in sync. Mods to fix it would help, but not look ok. Crossbars have their own issues. They all can be made to work better if not good. Thats the downfall of most dual carb setups. People settle for - it runs good

[jpaull]

I have 2 sets of cross bar linkage using bearing kits. I installed these with brand new crossbar linkage cause its the right thing to do from the start. The plastic bushings are garbage but the steel hex bar is a great design as it runs true throughout the rpm range regardless of cold or hot. I can get the down rods at the exact same angle, it really makes a difference as having both banks of cylinders opening 100% simultaneously sets apart a smooth revving engine from a not so smooth one. I also re-drill and tap all the linkage arm/throttle arm set screws to larger 8mm.

If someone can explain how a bell crank linkage with linkage rods at different angles can open the carbs at the same rate im all ears though.
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[dntchav]

Alstrup I see what you mean I synced the linkage motor warm as suggested next morning when it was cold it coughed and spitted I checked linkage with a magnifying glass lol and I could see where 3/4 side was a tiny bit open and was exaggerated when barely opening the throttle more I thought it might have moved so I re synced it But then when the motor I was hot it popped and coughed on deceleration so I re-synced it hot. So I’m assuming on a coldstart I’ll need to let it idle for about 10 minutes then it will be fine but hearing you talk about the angle of the rods I’m wondering if that’s why I now have that stumble at 22 to 2500 RPM where as I didn’t have it before with the crossbar . I’ve always used the crossbar but it was getting sloppy so I thought I would try something different usually I just replace the bushings and it’s good till they get worn again then like most people said you’ll never get it set right once the slop sets in.Has anyone ever tried that bearing upgrade for the crossbar looks like it would maintain integrity better than the ball and bushing ends but It’s a hard sell for me $80-$100 just to replace the ends of the crossbar seems a bit extreme

[runamoc]

I took (2) 1/4" X 3" SS bolts and drilled and tapped it to match the threads on the carburetor end. The cut the 'heads' and external threads off of the bolts to make these spacers. Then installed a stud between the two, works great

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VW Wiring = It's just wires

[Alstrup]

Hello.
Jeff, you are correct.
dntchav, It is quite normal that at least one rod is too short. It is du to the fact that the set is designed for their own manifolds and not everybody else´s (which to some extend is understandable.) You can order longer rods, no problem, exept if you can´t order locally.
The push pull systems are very popular for their simplicity and "out of the way look" Personally I do not like them, no matter the brand. Due to the issues with angled and unequall length of the rods you CANNOT have an engine that is in sync cold and warm. Also, around ½ throttle there WILL be a difference in throttle opening side to side. Also at WOT if the center piece is not angled correct. Most people do not seem to care about that and they just use them.
Berg´s are sturdy, but has the issues Tom menthions, which is a real PITA. You - can - actually get it right, but that involves some twisting and bending the arms to get to that point. One advantage with them is that they normally clear the deck lid in pre 60 cars.
CSP hex bar system is good. Just remember to lube the pivot balls on a regular basis. When they get worn, and they do, i replace them with quality heim joints. Then they last almost for ever.
Empi was actually going in the right direction when they reverse engineered the CB Hex bar. But for some reason they dropped the ball 25 yards before the finish line, which, again, made it sub par. Such a pity.
Wire pull. While I personally loathe the looks of the Sync link I have to admit that it is a pretty good system functionwise.
Logmech is a PITA to install, but once its there its there and works well, also over time.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[jpaull]

With the CSP bellcrank linkage, it looks like the 3/4 side rod has a greater angle then the 1/2 side. Is that correct? And if so, how can you get the carbs opening at the same rate when they cant open at the same rate cause of the different angles?
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[k@rlos]

[Ohio Tom]

I like the CSP linkage. Simple and has zero slop. Easy to sync up. Seems to stay that way too.

I have used "stand off" or "thread extensions" , also known as thread couplings.
to make the arms longer.
Doing a motor right now that the arms were a bit too short on. I simply added 1" couplings (with a short stud to mate them. Works perfectly and has the same adjustability. I would post a pic, but they make it too hard here.

The Berg linkage is Bardic...

The Z shaped pushrods that have both right hand threads on each end don't allow for fine tuning. NO way to sync a set of IDA's properly.
And I hope that your fan shroud doesn't move around.
The bearings are sloppy and the goofy double center arm with all the complexity makes me scratch my head.
Old-school.. I get it.. Lacking... yes...

[k@rlos]

I’m sure others with disagree but the CSP linkage is so bardic it’s amazing. Berg linkage looks cool but it’s vastly over engineered for something so simple. ( I love berg stuff btw)

[dntchav]

And yess I’m pulling off the crossbar plates had to save something for the next day

[dntchav]

Ok so I’m not crazy I a longer rod from an IDA kit that gave me overall about an extra 1/4 inch of adjustment which works fine now EXCEPT now I have the 2200rpm stumble I didn’t have before but only for a second Seems to be a lot smoother after that. Maybe since the linkage isn’t slopping around now at the joints it’s uncovered a minor flaw.I readjusted the valves and checked the timing and re-sync the carbs everything good I’ll check the Jets again tomorrow. All in all looks like it will be a better option and stay in sync longer appreciate all the feedback here’s a couple pics of it installed

[dntchav]

Thanks so much guys those are all the answers I was looking for I don’t know why I thought since it was made in Germany for a Vw It was just plug and play and would snap right on LOL I’ll give it another go this weekend and update happy holidays merry Christmas guys