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jtauxe 
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5975
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA
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 Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2025 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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Yes, the damage is entirely consistent with having put on the rotating draw bar backwards, but it actually was on correctly. So ... dunno.
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John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42593
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2025 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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three possible causes - bad transmission / engine ground, fatigue, or the unhappy clevis pin issue.
Bad ground causes the cable to be used as ground and it causes it to heat up and stretch - break strands
Fatigue speaks for itself
unhappy clevis pin - see below
| SGKent wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
The first thing check to be sure the clevis is on right upfront. It can be upside down. Here is a happy face I believe that Jon, HazetGuy drew to assist in getting it right. Make sure the cable is not binding.
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[/quote]
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52368
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2025 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| jtauxe wrote: |
I had an interesting (and classic) clutch cable failure this week. I noticed that the clutch was not engaging well, and that if I cranked down on the wing nut a bit, it got better. I did that a couple of times before I caught on that the cable was stretching and that I had best check it out at the soonest opportunity. That opportunity came only after I could no longer engage the clutch while at a red light, and I had to do the "start in 1st gear with the starter and then smart shift all the way home", fortunately not hitting another cause to fully stop.
I did make it home, and pulled out the cable to find this:
Down to 5 strands! |
Yeap, that is how it happens. The wires begin to break causing the cable to lengthen and making is hard to get into gear. Adjusting the nut just buys you as very short about of time. When installing the new cable, it helps if you apply grease to the area of the crimp to try and hold corrosion at bay. I have thought about applying several layers of heat shrink to the crimp area to both hold grease and to lessen any bending that is happening there. |
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jtauxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5975
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2025 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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I had an interesting (and classic) clutch cable failure this week. I noticed that the clutch was not engaging well, and that if I cranked down on the wing nut a bit, it got better. I did that a couple of times before I caught on that the cable was stretching and that I had best check it out at the soonest opportunity. That opportunity came only after I could no longer engage the clutch while at a red light, and I had to do the "start in 1st gear with the starter and then smart shift all the way home", fortunately not hitting another cause to fully stop.
I did make it home, and pulled out the cable to find this:
Down to 5 strands!
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 17653
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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Bushings and coupler would cause your gear shifter to have a lot of slop. The forward most bushing fails quite commonly. Get a helper to move your shifter around while you watch the coupler.
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52368
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| Maybe you have the wrong lever on one end of the cable or the other, could also be slop where the rear lever fits onto the release shaft (the levers are know to split). The welds on the release forks could be failing as well. The system shouldn't be so sensitive that a 1/4" from spec keeps the clutch from fully releasing. |
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3510
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| The optimal is 3/4". I don't know if 1/4" would make all that much difference. As a clutch wears free play goes away. Make sure the 4 engine to trans bolts feel tight and none are way loose. You've probably already done that. . |
SGKent for the win. I had set my free play from memory and my memory is crap! Set it to Bentley specs for Early bus which is a bit less than post ‘73 bus and the clutch works properly. Thanks for your memory jogger Steve! It’s now about 3/4”.
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42593
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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The optimal is 3/4". I don't know if 1/4" would make all that much difference. As a clutch wears free play goes away. Make sure the 4 engine to trans bolts feel tight and none are way loose. You've probably already done that. .
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3510
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| SGKent wrote: |
the syncho in 2nd is stopping the shaft from spinning. Then it goes into gear. It could be a bad pilot bearing or a warped clutch disc too. Use a tape measure to check free play like in the video at the link below I set up a couple years ago to assist someone else.
http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/clutch_freeplay.AVI |
I think I measured about an inch, but I’ll check it again.
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42593
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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the syncho in 2nd is stopping the shaft from spinning. Then it goes into gear. It could be a bad pilot bearing or a warped clutch disc too. Use a tape measure to check free play like in the video at the link below I set up a couple years ago to assist someone else.
http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/clutch_freeplay.AVI
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TomWesty
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Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3510
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| if the ONLY reason you are worried about the cable is because the trans shifts hard, check the oil in it, and also consider a new pilot bearing. |
I drove it quite a bit today and I think I need to adjust the clutch cable once more, but more importantly I think it’s time for shift coupler and bushings. The cable didn’t seem to stretch any and I noticed if I went from neutral to first it would grind going in to first. If I went into second before shifting into first it would not grind. This was while being at a stop. This all started when I was jacking my bus up and down a lot and putting it on ramps etc. to do brake work. I think shifter stuff that was already old and decrepit just got even more decrepit due to the flexing.
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42593
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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if the ONLY reason you are worried about the cable is because the trans shifts hard, check the oil in it, and also consider a new pilot bearing.
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TomWesty
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Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3510
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| check the transmission ground strap. If it is a bad or corroded connection then the clutch cable carries the load and gets hot. Also check the last weld where the tube ends. If it is bad the tube can flex. If you have to weld it make sure whomever does it doesn't poke thru the tube to leave a spot the cable can chaff on. |
Just run a band clamp around the torsion tube and the clutch tube and tighten it up well, no need to do any welding. One can even just use cordage if they are good with knots. |
Thanks!
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52368
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| check the transmission ground strap. If it is a bad or corroded connection then the clutch cable carries the load and gets hot. Also check the last weld where the tube ends. If it is bad the tube can flex. If you have to weld it make sure whomever does it doesn't poke thru the tube to leave a spot the cable can chaff on. |
Just run a band clamp around the torsion tube and the clutch tube and tighten it up well, no need to do any welding. One can even just use cordage if they are good with knots. |
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TomWesty
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Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3510
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| cmonSTART wrote: |
| aeromech wrote: |
I’ve seen cables start snapping strands. This causes cable stretch but you tighten the wing nut and it just stretches more. Doesn’t seem to be your case.
Might be the needle bearing going. Not too hard on a 1971 to change. How long has it been since you looked at the clutch? |
Same here - really sounds like a pilot bearing or some other issue. I have had clutch cables stretch because they're breaking as Aeromech said, but they never go back to normal when cooled down obviously.
Is your pedal freeplay changing? |
I’ll check freeplay. I need to do pilot bearing and all shift bushings/ coupler. Thank you!
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3510
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| aeromech wrote: |
I’ve seen cables start snapping strands. This causes cable stretch but you tighten the wing nut and it just stretches more. Doesn’t seem to be your case.
Might be the needle bearing going. Not too hard on a 1971 to change. How long has it been since you looked at the clutch? |
Thanks!
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cmonSTART
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Joined: July 15, 2014
Posts: 1915
Location: NH
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| aeromech wrote: |
I’ve seen cables start snapping strands. This causes cable stretch but you tighten the wing nut and it just stretches more. Doesn’t seem to be your case.
Might be the needle bearing going. Not too hard on a 1971 to change. How long has it been since you looked at the clutch? |
Same here - really sounds like a pilot bearing or some other issue. I have had clutch cables stretch because they're breaking as Aeromech said, but they never go back to normal when cooled down obviously.
Is your pedal freeplay changing?
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 17653
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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I’ve seen cables start snapping strands. This causes cable stretch but you tighten the wing nut and it just stretches more. Doesn’t seem to be your case.
Might be the needle bearing going. Not too hard on a 1971 to change. How long has it been since you looked at the clutch?
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Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
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BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
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VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
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TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3510
Location: Wyoming,USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| TomWesty wrote: |
| Yes, on start up and early driving, shifting is pretty normal. Then it starts grinding into gear like the clutch isn’t fully disengaged. |
no idea what you have here. T1? T4?
either way, sounds to me like a failing pilot bearing.
i've had 2 T4 buses that shifted fine cold but couldn't get to shift after about 10-15 mins. after 1/2 hour, you couldn't shift at all |
Too lazy to put it in my sig line. T1 with OG tranny. 1971 Westy.
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 17653
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Stretching clutch cable. |
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Does the pedal free play seem to change and then change back or is it just the difficulty in changing gears that changes?
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Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
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DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
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VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
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