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Message |
Bloog
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 485
Location: Over yonder
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 Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 5:35 am Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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| Tram wrote: |
| akokarski wrote: |
finding squareback bars is proving to be more difficult than it needs to be. Looks like I need to buy a complete front beam and rear subframe.  |
Hey Gang-
Sorry I have not been on here lately- I have been over my eyeballs in work.
I wanted to pipe in on this as I saw it as I was here trying to source a few missing parts for a Variant engine and auto trans I am balls deep into.
Anton, I probably have everything you need but I would try a different approach first. The reason I say this is because if you removed gas shocks due to a harsh ride- what do you think bigger/ stiffer suspension components are going to do? 
Variants/ Squarebacks have the heavier suspension to boost load carrying capacity that Fastbacks, Notchbacks, and Typ 34s do not have the room for.
First- YES, replace all your suspension bushes. Then, do a poor man's corner balance. With the car on level ground measure the distance to the ground at the lower shock mounts. LF + RR should equal LR + RF. If you are a big guy add your weight to the driver's side or have someone else measure while you sit in the car.
Then, adjust the suspension as necessary to get it right or as close as possible. The trickiest trick in your arsenal here might just be to install adjustable spring plates on the rear. This will allow fine adjustments to be made. Remember that bringing the right rear UP brings the left front DOWN, and vice versa for both sides in an X pattern.
Then- check and adjust your alignment as necessary. ANY play in tie rods or ball joints means replace them. Same with your steering gear, rag joint, etc.
You can play with lowering the car slightly and going negative a degree or so on camber for better stability but if your linkage and suspension are both tight with new bushes, all questionable components replaced, and correct alignment/ tire pressure (Remember PSI or bar are constant values no matter the size of tire), and it's balanced, you should notice a HUGE improvement in overall handling and responsiveness.
After that, if you really want it stiffer- then do your Variant parts swap.
Just my two pfennigs.
And now... back to the Gulag for me. |
I want it stiffer... 
_________________
| Bob Hoover wrote: |
Listen to what the ENGINE has to say. It won't take your money and it's incapable of lying. All you have to do is learn to speak its language.
-Bob Hoover |
| chabanais wrote: |
| Ah... you buy from Sum Ting Wong Distribution Company. |
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akokarski
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2107
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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I want to be clear on the gas shocks, they made ride really unbearable when going over bumps and deeps. The rebound on those KYBs is unholy, you get bump in the road and rebound felt like it was another punch but even stronger. I don't know how wtf that is possible but that's the impression that had from those shocks.
What I want to achieve is a better handling ride and I think thicker sway bar in the front will do that. I also don't want to have to take everything apart twice hence why I am thinking of going with thicker sways. also adjustable konies should give me some adjustability in the front.
Another thing that is really becoming apparent is how weird the steering on the car is. I think because bushes are shot, the whole thing is moving around enough to have toe out etc change as I go through the turns.
Thanks!
Anton |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23034
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2025 12:37 am Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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| akokarski wrote: |
| finding squareback bars is proving to be more difficult than it needs to be. Looks like I need to buy a complete front beam and rear subframe. |
Hey Gang-
Sorry I have not been on here lately- I have been over my eyeballs in work.
I wanted to pipe in on this as I saw it as I was here trying to source a few missing parts for a Variant engine and auto trans I am balls deep into.
Anton, I probably have everything you need but I would try a different approach first. The reason I say this is because if you removed gas shocks due to a harsh ride- what do you think bigger/ stiffer suspension components are going to do?
Variants/ Squarebacks have the heavier suspension to boost load carrying capacity that Fastbacks, Notchbacks, and Typ 34s do not have the room for.
First- YES, replace all your suspension bushes. Then, do a poor man's corner balance. With the car on level ground measure the distance to the ground at the lower shock mounts. LF + RR should equal LR + RF. If you are a big guy add your weight to the driver's side or have someone else measure while you sit in the car.
Then, adjust the suspension as necessary to get it right or as close as possible. The trickiest trick in your arsenal here might just be to install adjustable spring plates on the rear. This will allow fine adjustments to be made. Remember that bringing the right rear UP brings the left front DOWN, and vice versa for both sides in an X pattern.
Then- check and adjust your alignment as necessary. ANY play in tie rods or ball joints means replace them. Same with your steering gear, rag joint, etc.
You can play with lowering the car slightly and going negative a degree or so on camber for better stability but if your linkage and suspension are both tight with new bushes, all questionable components replaced, and correct alignment/ tire pressure (Remember PSI or bar are constant values no matter the size of tire), and it's balanced, you should notice a HUGE improvement in overall handling and responsiveness.
After that, if you really want it stiffer- then do your Variant parts swap.
Just my two pfennigs.
And now... back to the Gulag for me.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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akokarski
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2107
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2025 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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| finding squareback bars is proving to be more difficult than it needs to be. Looks like I need to buy a complete front beam and rear subframe. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23458
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2025 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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| akokarski wrote: |
Are there thicker torsion bars in the front? I thought it was just the stabilizer that was different on the square
I got full set of rubbers from isp |
Yes, the upper bar is thicker. When you tighten the right side, make sure you're not pulling the bar out of the left side, as that can happen IF the grub screw isn't tight.
I don't know if the torsion bars are thicker or not, as I just used an entire Squareback beam on the car (left lower bushing was shot, and it was easier to source an entire beam than the bushings needed to fix it).
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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akokarski
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2107
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 11:21 am Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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Are there thicker torsion bars in the front? I thought it was just the stabilizer that was different on the square
I got full set of rubbers from isp |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23458
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 10:53 am Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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| akokarski wrote: |
Guys,
Need a bit of an input... I am gearing up to do replacement on all body and rear bushings as I can see that torsion bar bushings have failed and same is likely to be true for the rest. I am hoping to improve some ride quality, steering and cornering. I've acquired body bushings set and torsion bar bushings and wondering while I have it all apart, should I swap rear torsion bars and front stabilizer to a thicker ones from a squareback?
I also have a new set of oil shocks all around which replaced gas shocks as the ride was fairly jarring on a rough road, which I think I maybe better off replacing with gas on the rear and koni's on the front?
I want to attain comfy but better handling ride as I have 6 to 10 miles of fairly twisty road with a 2 mile part on really bumpy surface... hence why I am thinking of deviating from stock torsion, stabilizer bars and shocks.
Thanks!
Anton |
I don't know if ISP has all of the rear body bushings to rebuild the rear sub, but that's what you'd need.
Yes, I'd go with KYB gas shocks in the rear, and oil Koni's up front. I've found the rear is really the only place for gas shocks on our cars. And definitely oil up front, since our cars are so light there. If you have the time and money, replace the torsion bars on all 4 corners with torsion bars from a Squareback, as they are larger in diameter, along with being stiffer. My wife's 70 Fastback has Squareback torsion bars on it, along with KYB gas shocks on the rear and some Cofap lowered oil shocks up front. With the AT and FI it's like driving a go kart.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Scotty D
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2020
Posts: 286
Location: Claremont CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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| akokarski wrote: |
Hi,
Not much has been happening in terms of updates to the fastback. I took a bit of a detour and figured I can get my kitcar in a better shape, it needs quite a bit of work, but I wanted to get it at least fully functional and been spending most of the time on that project...
I recently changed jobs and my office is way out in San Mateo, about 40/45 miles one way commute so I've been staying off driving fastback plus winter. This week however my trucks brakes quickly wore off (never again EBC)... so I had to take fastback. It did not disappoint, my commute is either skyline boulevard (highway 35) which runs along the top of ridge between bay area and coast so even though it's over an hour drive it's over a scenic highway.
Few things for sure, I do need plan on going through bushings and steering and then see how I can get a bit more power squeezed out.
here is my "dreaded" commute
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A beautiful drive for sure. I'm guessing it's a bit more eventful behind the wheel of the Fasty.
Interested to see what type of advice you receive about your suspension upgrades. Staying tuned to this comment section. |
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akokarski
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2107
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 10:51 am Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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Guys,
Need a bit of an input... I am gearing up to do replacement on all body and rear bushings as I can see that torsion bar bushings have failed and same is likely to be true for the rest. I am hoping to improve some ride quality, steering and cornering. I've acquired body bushings set and torsion bar bushings and wondering while I have it all apart, should I swap rear torsion bars and front stabilizer to a thicker ones from a squareback?
I also have a new set of oil shocks all around which replaced gas shocks as the ride was fairly jarring on a rough road, which I think I maybe better off replacing with gas on the rear and koni's on the front?
I want to attain comfy but better handling ride as I have 6 to 10 miles of fairly twisty road with a 2 mile part on really bumpy surface... hence why I am thinking of deviating from stock torsion, stabilizer bars and shocks.
Thanks!
Anton |
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akokarski
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2107
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| Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2025 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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Hi,
Not much has been happening in terms of updates to the fastback. I took a bit of a detour and figured I can get my kitcar in a better shape, it needs quite a bit of work, but I wanted to get it at least fully functional and been spending most of the time on that project...
I recently changed jobs and my office is way out in San Mateo, about 40/45 miles one way commute so I've been staying off driving fastback plus winter. This week however my trucks brakes quickly wore off (never again EBC)... so I had to take fastback. It did not disappoint, my commute is either skyline boulevard (highway 35) which runs along the top of ridge between bay area and coast so even though it's over an hour drive it's over a scenic highway.
Few things for sure, I do need plan on going through bushings and steering and then see how I can get a bit more power squeezed out.
here is my "dreaded" commute
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akokarski
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2107
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| Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2024 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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Hi,
Small update, nothing major happening here other than occasional drive here and there.
a few weeks back I was able to get my AFR gauge replaced with MTX-Pro, turns out the predecessor to this model did have an issue with heater circuit which caused o2 sensors to burn up the heater element. I haven't put on enough miles to rule that out just yet.
Today I did my test drive to work, and we are running 14 on freeway. Down to 11 on full throttle. I think I want to try going back to stock injectors and see how it will behave. There is still a bit of a rich spot on take off.
Funny thing is when I got home, found my coil completely unbolted from the bracket and just sitting on top of exaust. Both bolts holding the clamp to the bracket were gone!  May be I need to take it easy, but it rips in 1st lane even uphill!
Cheers!
Anton |
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akokarski
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2107
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| Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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Today my new timing light came in, it’s a innova 3568a. I used it to compare the timing and rpm. Sure enough all my multimeters were way off, hence why I splurged on a new tool.
Here are the readings side by side.
And multimeters are wondering by hundreds not a few rpm while the light is steady just moving a few rpm’s here and there.
My timing was at 10 degrees not 5! I was having trust issues since non of the three multimeters were even close, but this is just ridiculous.
Does anyone know why this is happening? The millimeters are all the same model but different brands and non of them are even close. |
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akokarski
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2107
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| Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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Today I've gone through distributor to make sure there is nothing funny going on. Overall was very clean inside and other than a small mark under the ball it's in good shape.
My injector breaker does have a bit of difference in resistance. 0.1 ohm on one side and .5 on the other
I ended up just cleaning and replacing grease
Vacuum canister lever does drop down under the vacuum but it looks very clean
I was able to give 5 degrees of advance but rpm seems to be wondering. Timing is still spot on though.
Now I am back to getting the stumble out off idle. Right now I am running sealed MPS. Was able to go get gas (20 mile round trip) and it drove pretty well. Although with few backfires when off idle, which sounds like a cracking whip. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23458
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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I call this the upper arm adjustment, as it'll take away some of the front end shake too. Note; you might have to do it a couple of times (adjust it, then drive, then adjust it) if it hasn't been done in a few years.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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akokarski
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2107
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| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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ok so back to 20 in the front and 29 in the back, that's an easy one.
The torsion arm check adjustment is something I haven't done before. I need to look into this.
Beam is pumped with fresh grease. I typically "replace" by pumping new stuff until it comes out and displaces the old. I want to say that I've done this in the past 6 months...
Thanks!
Anton |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23034
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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Also check this adjustment- this is periodic maintenance:
Then pump the front beam full of fresh grease.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23034
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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| akokarski wrote: |
thanks Bob!
So my tire pressure was 20 all around, I tried 30 and seemed a bit more loose on the straight away. I am going back down to I don't know 25 maybe?
Bushings are a good topic, I've been mulling over doing all of the bushings as bump stops are shot and rear seems to have negative camber with torsion bars off center which indicates that spring plate bushings are tired. I don't see how beam bushings would be better off than the rest.
My hang up here is whether new rubbers are of decent quality and obviously the time to get them all replaced. Maybe I should move that up in the list....
Cheers!
Anton |
Here's your tire pressure specs:
Add 3 PSI for modern P- metric radials. Looks like you don't have stock size wheels/ tires. However, "pounds per square inch" is a constant value, even if you alter the square inches by switching tire sizes. The only exception to this would be if you go with a tire/ rim size with insanely short sidewalls. Then you're on your own.
Lots of people insist on going with the pressure on the sidewall, but that is not correct. That figure is the MAXIMUM inflation pressure for that tire. Always go with the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation. If the vehicle specs EXCEED the spec on the tire... only then go with the spec on the tire till you get the correct tires!
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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akokarski
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2107
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| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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thanks Bob!
So my tire pressure was 20 all around, I tried 30 and seemed a bit more loose on the straight away. I am going back down to I don't know 25 maybe?
Bushings are a good topic, I've been mulling over doing all of the bushings as bump stops are shot and rear seems to have negative camber with torsion bars off center which indicates that spring plate bushings are tired. I don't see how beam bushings would be better off than the rest.
My hang up here is whether new rubbers are of decent quality and obviously the time to get them all replaced. Maybe I should move that up in the list....
Cheers!
Anton |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23458
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2024 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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| akokarski wrote: |
I am really not liking how it handles at speed on a straight away.
Cheers!
Anton |
Double check your tire pressures You might have too much in the front. Also check the upper beam end play. I've found those 2 items can contribute to a "wandering" front end end more than anything.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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akokarski
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 2107
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2024 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Fastback "sympathetic restoration" |
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Nice, I didn't realize early rabbits had somewhat similar switches!
Alright so I kind been driving, getting more miles and looking at the AFR. It still seems to be working so I am keeping my fingers crossed.
Today I took it to work, that's a healthy 6 miles in the mountains and then some on the freeway. It's pulls pretty darn well even though my afr is all around 10.
Light throttle cruising anywhere between 8.5 and < 12. full throttle not much different.
Came home and figured let me get a bit of turns on the middle screw, it did not affect AFR at idle, so I went a bit much to get it to 12. now when I am driving it is sweeping a lot more getting into 17s but it was a short drive just down the hill not even a 1/2 mile and back to the house. Hopefully I can take it out tomorrow and see how it behaves on more open road.
Also picked a new steering box, so that will need to go in. I am really not liking how it handles at speed on a straight away.
I am rereading some other MPS adjustment posts and pbanders, Looks like I goofed with with mixture adjustment. Inner screw does not affect idle afr, just part load and full load. Which means I need to go back to where I was and do a smaller adjustment to lean the mixture. See my cruise, part load and full load then go from there.
Cheers!
Anton |
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