Please help with identification

[Bobnotch]

To remove the ball joint thru bolt, you have to remove the tension on the ball joint first (and maybe warm up the solid side of the trailing arm with a torch), or it will wipe the threads upon removal. Or remove the 30mm nut on the end of the ball joint first. I normally order them up, then cross check the part numbers on the box, and go with what they are. In the old days you could see more of a groove in the lower ball joint (for adjusting camber), but now they just look more like the tops (hardly any angle in the groove).
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[TeeSquare2000]

I got some time/money/parts to lower the chassis. I got some EMPI adjustable spring plates. I know that they are of cheap quality but I have a pretty tight budget (it is just a Bradley GT after all).

Here is the stock height.

Here is the lowered height.

And, the spring plates installed. New torsion bars as well.

I was only able to install three bolts in the spring plates. The fourth bolt looks like it is for alignment as the hole is threaded. I was not able to put it in because the hole in the spring plate was not there. I was also able to use the stock shocks (or at least the shocks that were on it already). It passes the bounce test and does not bottom out as far as I can tell.

I found a bad right side top ball joint. I am now in the process of replacing all four ball joints. I keep snapping off bolts when trying to remove them. This is after soaking with PB Blaster twice a day for five days. I will have to drill them out, which is a pain.

Seems like every time I try to fix something, I break two other things. It's also slow going due to other projects in the works (non-car stuff).

A question I have is:
What is the difference between the upper and lower ball joints. They look the same to me. I have not measured them with a caliper yet but I can't tell the difference.

Oh, and I did get the Bentley manual. There is a lot of good info in there, so thanks for that.

[Bobnotch]

[TeeSquare2000]

BTW. This is what I was using as it looks like what I have.

[TeeSquare2000]

Thanks for the advice. I think you are right about the adjustable spring plates. There is some weird things going on with this chassis. I think I would like the adjustability at the rear. The front will fall into place just fine, most likely.

Because I'm not experienced (some could say dumb and I wouldn't be too offended) and don't have a lot of cash to sink into it, could you recommend an economical, adjustable spring plate? I also want to replace the torsion bars because I see that there are some nicks and scratches (rust) on them.

It seems that there are a few torsion bar lengths. The length determines which spring plate is compatible.

I did not get a manual for a Squareback. Because the chassis is undetermined and pieced together and it would only be useful for 25% of the car. Maybe I will get one anyway. 1971 Squareback I think.

[Bobnotch]

[TeeSquare2000]

PB Blaster overnight, heat on the inner spline block, BFH and a 1"ish pipe through the torsion tube to hammer it out from the inside. It worked! Both rear torsions are out. Now, I need to free them from the spring plates.

I think I can cut the very end off the spring plate cylinder where the torsion tube attaches. Then I can smack it out from the outside. After it's all apart, I can get to reindexing the angle I want. I don't have a starting point but I should be able to get close and then adjust once the body weight is in place.

I should be able to "pot" the end with grease and put a cap over the end when done. I will show a picture when (if) I complete.

[SBD]

I'd think that using dropped pans might be better/just as easy as raising the body and lowering the suspension.
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"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"

[Bobnotch]

Yeah, the rears are the hardest to remove, mainly because they sit on the stop, and keep things from moving. I know I've used a crow bar to get them off before, so sometimes you have to get "mid evil" on them due to rust. No clips that I know of, but rust is a big possibility. Sometimes heat and a BFH might be needed.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[TeeSquare2000]

A friend of mine said that beer would help. And, it did but not the way I thought.

[TeeSquare2000]

So...I have problems. I am attempting to lower the suspension by 3". I was able to get the right side rear spring plate popped out. The torsion bar is seized into the spring plate and it took A LOT of force to get it broke free. The inner splined end came out but I cannot get the torsion bar out of the spring plate.

The left rear, I am not able to break the spring plate free at all. Inner and outer splines are really seized. Is there a retainer that I am not aware of? All of the videos I have watched, the torsion bar is not held in by anything. After removing the spring plate retainer (four bolts) usually it just comes apart.

I have tried using heat where the splines are. I have also tried soaking everywhere I can with PB Blaster. I shot a lot of PB into the hole here. Not sure if that helps...well I am sure because it did not help.

I tried hammering a pickle fork between the spring plate and housing. That is how I got the right to pop out but the left is really in there.

Without just going "Cave Man" on it, any ideas?

And, to top it off, the right popped out with so much force that I have no idea which spline it was on to begin with.

I will search the forum on how to properly position the torsion splines, so I think I can figure it out. Assuming I can get the torsion bar out of the spring plate.

[Bobnotch]

[TeeSquare2000]

@Bobnotch

I removed the carpet and this is what I've got. Looks like T1 pans on a T3 chassis to me. But, I don't have much experience yet. I'm really thankful that I have this forum and you guys for a resource.

Everything looks pretty solid on the pans. The tunnel is kind of ugly but there appears to be some matting over it in places. New carpet will cover the ugliness.

Next, I am going to hit it with Ospho Rust Converter and then some Rustolium. I know that there are some strong opinions on rust converter products. I'm not going for a show car. Some say to stay away from POR-15 but it seems to be used with good results...hmmm...

[Bobnotch]

You might want to remove the carpet, and look at the welds along the tunnel where the pans were welded on (looks like someone changed the pans to bug pan halfs). I'd also look over the welds on that angle iron frame work around the engine, especially where it's welded to the rear body mount on the sub-frame.

I will admit someone got creative in using old VW parts to build that pan assembly. They must have had an old rusty type 3 to donate it's pan for a title, and them modified it with bug pans, but kept/re-used the front beam and rear suspension assembly. When they got to the engine, they really got creative.
To lower the rear, you might have to cut some of the support braces out for the suspension to move upward once it's lowered. Just some random thoughts for you to think about.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[TeeSquare2000]

The body has been removed. It took 4 guys to lift it off. Doesn't look too bad.

[biffidum]

Squirt as much oil into that front beam as you can and avoid major potholes. I had to rebuild my beam and it was a PIA. My guess is that there are loads of beams rotting from the inside out on the road.

[Scotty D]

Wow, great looking car you got there!

Some interesting engineering for sure to get that type 3 chassis to work.

Looking forward to your progress with this.

[Bobnotch]

I'd just keep adding to this one. Use it as a "build thread" if you want.

I think dropping the front 2 inner splines drops it about 2.5 inches. Two outer splines drops it around 2 1/4 inches I think. It's been a while since I've done an outer spline drop. Anything over 2 splines requires the use of short shocks and removal of both rubber bump stops (just the rubber bits, unless your roads are so bad that they're constantly hitting them). I prefer an inner spline drop, as the end of the bar is usually greased, and comes apart easily. I've found the outer end is usually rusted on pretty good.
Dropping the rears requires more work, and if you want maybe look at adjustable spring plates to help dial it in. Keep in mind most of it IS very similar to a bug when dropping it, meaning you might have to do both an inner AND an outer spline change to get what you want. I ran into that when I dropped the rear of my 71 Notch.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[TeeSquare2000]

Thanks for the input. I got the body disconnected and shimmed up 3" so I can check the inside height. My head used to touch the top and I pretty much needed to lay down to drive it. With 3" extra, it's way better. Once the body is off, I am going to address the mess that is the chassis.

I know it looks way too high right now. It should be lowered like 2.5 to 3" with the suspension.

It's not that bad from what I see so far. I will get a wire wheel and knock the rust off before soda blasting. The brakes need work and the engine mount needs a re-think. The engine could use some cleaning up.

I know I have seen some charts on "re-indexing" the torsion rods for both front and back. The bumper stops will have to be removed as well to lower it.

I'm not really a welder but I think I can spotweld the hole.

I appreciate that I have people willing to give good advice here. I'm not very good at forums. Should this be a new post? Or, should I keep it in this one for the mods?

[Bobnotch]