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Abscate 
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 23916
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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 Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2025 12:40 am Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| Chootrain470 wrote: |
| Nitramrebrab72 wrote: |
| For every year a daily driver car is kept on the road it's production pollution foot print per year is reduced. On top of that if an owner is able to keep it on the road themselves due to it's simple design it reduces the financial lay out reducing the need to work more to pay for it. Where as a new car are so expensive you have to be a busy bee ,working more hours driving further a field , possibly driving to a second job, literally burning the midnight oil to pay for it. |
There is a cost-benefit analysis that could be done for the amount of pollution saved by building a new car vs keeping a higher polluting car on the road. At some point, it would be less environmental impact to build a new car than to keep a higher polluter on the road. This number is difficult to calculate since there are many variables. Is the old car being recycled? How much pollution is the old car producing vs the new car? This would need to be done on a case-by-case basis. I am not condemning Vanagon ownership, but you do need to admit that there is an environmental impact by driving these cars long term. |
My wife and I just completed a 3,500 mile round trip from San Diego to the Utah National Parks, up to the Tetons over to Washington, down through Oregon and Cal home. We saw a grand total of three Other Vanagons on the road and two Aircooled VWs and maybe a handful of other pre 2010 vehicles. The crazies at CARB who have lobbied against the bill make a false claim that the average driver of these antiques will spew as much pollution in 3k miles as a new car down in over 300k which is likely true but aside from a very few number of people (like myself) who drives the vintage vehicle that much? Other studies show that antique cars have a tiny impact of clean air because they are not driven much. |
The analysis correctly considers the fact that many more old cars could be brought in to escape smog if the bill were wide open to all use. You will find accounts of people here on these pages advocating โ just register it in in MT and drive it without smogโ
It is about a factor of 100x for driving emissions, but 500-1000x for evaporative emissions.
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12318
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2025 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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It just went through the assembly transportation committee. The amendments are that the smog exemption will extend to 1980 and annually increases to vehicles prior to 1986 by the year 2032. Collector car insurance and historical vehicle plates with associated usage restrictions are still required.
It passed and is moving on to the next step |
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termuehlen
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2012
Posts: 1033
Location: Redwood City
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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Thanks for the link calsurf. I just sent my supporting note.
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calsurf
Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2022
Posts: 186
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2025 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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Senate Bill 712, regarding smog check exemptions for certain vehicles, is currently in the engrossed status in the California Senate. It has been referred to the Assembly Transportation Committee and is scheduled for a hearing on July 14. The bill has been amended multiple times in the Senate.
Key points about the bill's status:
Engrossed:
This means the bill has been finalized after amendments and is ready for further action.
Referred to Assembly Transportation Committee:
The bill has been sent to the Assembly Transportation Committee for review and consideration.
Scheduled Hearing:
The Assembly Transportation Committee will hold a hearing on the bill on July 14, 2025.
If in support please send the CA Assembly Transportation committee a note. Easy to do online; https://calegislation.lc.ca.gov/Advocates/faces/index.xhtml |
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Chootrain470
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2023
Posts: 163
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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| Braukuche, I agree with you. The fact is that the amount of 35+ year old vehicles is small, thus a smaller impact. There is also the argument that a classic car is a piece of history that should be preserved. |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11205
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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| Chootrain470 wrote: |
| Nitramrebrab72 wrote: |
| For every year a daily driver car is kept on the road it's production pollution foot print per year is reduced. On top of that if an owner is able to keep it on the road themselves due to it's simple design it reduces the financial lay out reducing the need to work more to pay for it. Where as a new car are so expensive you have to be a busy bee ,working more hours driving further a field , possibly driving to a second job, literally burning the midnight oil to pay for it. |
There is a cost-benefit analysis that could be done for the amount of pollution saved by building a new car vs keeping a higher polluting car on the road. At some point, it would be less environmental impact to build a new car than to keep a higher polluter on the road. This number is difficult to calculate since there are many variables. Is the old car being recycled? How much pollution is the old car producing vs the new car? This would need to be done on a case-by-case basis. I am not condemning Vanagon ownership, but you do need to admit that there is an environmental impact by driving these cars long term. |
My wife and I just completed a 3,500 mile round trip from San Diego to the Utah National Parks, up to the Tetons over to Washington, down through Oregon and Cal home. We saw a grand total of three Other Vanagons on the road and two Aircooled VWs and maybe a handful of other pre 2010 vehicles. The crazies at CARB who have lobbied against the bill make a false claim that the average driver of these antiques will spew as much pollution in 3k miles as a new car down in over 300k which is likely true but aside from a very few number of people (like myself) who drives the vintage vehicle that much? Other studies show that antique cars have a tiny impact of clean air because they are not driven much.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1989 Westfalia |
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Chootrain470
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2023
Posts: 163
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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| Nitramrebrab72 wrote: |
| For every year a daily driver car is kept on the road it's production pollution foot print per year is reduced. On top of that if an owner is able to keep it on the road themselves due to it's simple design it reduces the financial lay out reducing the need to work more to pay for it. Where as a new car are so expensive you have to be a busy bee ,working more hours driving further a field , possibly driving to a second job, literally burning the midnight oil to pay for it. |
There is a cost-benefit analysis that could be done for the amount of pollution saved by building a new car vs keeping a higher polluting car on the road. At some point, it would be less environmental impact to build a new car than to keep a higher polluter on the road. This number is difficult to calculate since there are many variables. Is the old car being recycled? How much pollution is the old car producing vs the new car? This would need to be done on a case-by-case basis. I am not condemning Vanagon ownership, but you do need to admit that there is an environmental impact by driving these cars long term. |
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Nitramrebrab72
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Joined: November 10, 2018
Posts: 887
Location: France
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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| For every year a daily driver car is kept on the road it's production pollution foot print per year is reduced. On top of that if an owner is able to keep it on the road themselves due to it's simple design it reduces the financial lay out reducing the need to work more to pay for it. Where as a new car are so expensive you have to be a busy bee ,working more hours driving further a field , possibly driving to a second job, literally burning the midnight oil to pay for it. |
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calsurf
Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2022
Posts: 186
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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| zerotofifty wrote: |
| syncrodoka wrote: |
| It passed the CA state senate yesterday 32-3. On to the next step |
What passed???? |
SB712 Leno's law passed the State Senate. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's now onto the State Assembly. IF it passes here, it's onto Gov. Newsome's desk to sign or veto. Wouldn't come into effect until Jan. 1st of 2027 if then. Apparently the collectors car insurance and historic Lic. plate clauses are mandatory again. 35 yr old+ vehicles would be smog exempt.
https://legiscan.com/CA/bill/SB712/2025 |
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tjet
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3725
Location: Az
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| Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2025 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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Guys please... Lets not get crazy. My photo shows how high the gas prices can get in CA, but it does not represent the average high price.
What I don't like is how the state of California wants to "punish" you with exuberant taxes for not buying an EV. Similar to how they tax cigarettes. |
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 3791
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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| syncrodoka wrote: |
| It passed the CA state senate yesterday 32-3. On to the next step |
What passed????
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Sorry About That Chief.
Give Peace a Chance.
Words to live by. |
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 3791
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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| ?Waldo? wrote: |
| Let me guess, it was the first and only pump off the freeway with the next one 50 miles farther through the Mojave Desert or some such. Places that CAN charge exorbitant prices, often DO. That's true all across the country. Even if it is actual recent pic, that's till a BS representation of typical fuel prices in CA. |
But that does represent the high prices we are stuck with in California. I end up paying 5 bucks for 91 octane at the cheapo no name station near me, and not far are some that have 6 plus dollars per gallon prices California will soon tack on an additional 65 cents for global warming carbon fees to each gallon. And California is about to loose two refineries. It will get much worse soon. We are at or will soon be at near twice the national average price. And it aint like we are an isolated island like Hawaii that has to have all their gasoline imported over long distances either.
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Sorry About That Chief.
Give Peace a Chance.
Words to live by. |
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 3791
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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| Erik G wrote: |
| tjet wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Sadly, California used to be one of the best places for the car hobby. But as the state government has exerted increasing control over all aspects of life there, many enthusiasts have fled the state for greener pastures. We wonder if Lenoโs Bill will be changed further and if it will even pass. |
I agree with Kam.
If that doesn't want to make you leave, maybe this will (or that's what Sacramento is hoping for)...
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This is a bullshit pic, current prices are about 4.59-4.99 for regular. That's already enough without needing bullshit pics |
Your statement is BULLSHIT. Yes the gas prices in California are very high, and this price I have seen too. Also in the coming months a new global warming carbon tax will be added to California refineries (just as Greta demands be imposed on us), and that is expected to raise the price near 65 cents more per gallon. Plus we have some California gasoline refineries scheduled to close for good in the near future and since we can only use specialized gasoline in this state, the price will increase even more as supply is further curtailed. meanwhile Electric rates are increasing, as homes and cars are forced to electrify, with little to zero increase in affordable electric generation.
This is all planned to get the poor and middle class out of cars and on to public transit, urine soaked, homeless drug addict infested, public transit.
_________________
Sorry About That Chief.
Give Peace a Chance.
Words to live by.
Last edited by zerotofifty on Thu Jun 05, 2025 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12318
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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| It passed the CA state senate yesterday 32-3. On to the next step |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17157
Location: Brookeville, MD
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
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tjet
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3725
Location: Az
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 11:02 am Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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| ?Waldo? wrote: |
| Let me guess, it was the first and only pump off the freeway with the next one 50 miles farther through the Mojave Desert or some such. Places that CAN charge exorbitant prices, often DO. That's true all across the country. Even if it is actual recent pic, that's till a BS representation of typical fuel prices in CA. |
Lol - yes. I was trying to get to AZ on fumes driving my F250. I think I bought 3 whole gallons to make it to Kingman (my truck gets 11 MPG - hence the future OM606 diesel swap). |
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fxr
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Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2649
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 10:57 am Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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We've through Needles at least a couple of times. That Chevron (spit) station has always been at least twice the price of gas a couple of miles further on over the border in AZ - currently $3.03 at the Shell station - and I bet the cheapest there is well under $3.00.
Here in Pleasant Hill you can often see over $1 difference between the Chevron price and the one over the road.
I never buy at Chevron on principle - I don't understand anyone who does!
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?Waldo?
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Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10028
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 10:43 am Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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| Let me guess, it was the first and only pump off the freeway with the next one 50 miles farther through the Mojave Desert or some such. Places that CAN charge exorbitant prices, often DO. That's true all across the country. Even if it is actual recent pic, that's till a BS representation of typical fuel prices in CA. |
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tjet
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3725
Location: Az
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2025 9:59 am Post subject: Re: California Smog Exemption Bill 712 ~ Leno's Law |
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| It's real. I took it last week visiting my dad. I was driving through Needles. |
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