Author |
Message |
Brian_e  Samba Member

Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 4003 Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
|
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2025 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
Another thing to add is the last few castings usually go the small chamber, and the .055" step. This really causes all kinds of problems when trying to re-use old heads on larger engines. Once you get rid of the step, you end up with a 48cc chamber. This really sucks when you are trying to use the heads on a 1904cc bus engine.
You can hog the chambers to add volume till you are blue in the face, and all you will end up with is sore hands and a really crappy semi-hemi chamber.
This is why the newer casting heads like aa500 are great. They used to come with a 61cc, no-step chamber so you had all kinds of options. They recently switched to the stock valve aa500 only come with a 54cc chamber, which is still lots of room to work on bigger engines, while still keeping a nice tight deck height.
Brian _________________ So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok
Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com
Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
modok Samba Member

Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 27674 Location: Colorado Springs
|
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2025 12:55 am Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
NICE result!
DUSTY....
The mexican 043H heads had smaller ports which almost look like somebody used a flow bench finally, (no spring bump in intake port)
They were......I assume replacement heads for mexican taxis
Some had 3/4 reach plugs, others had 1/2 reach, some had small valves some had regular valves, some had big valves.
The spark plugs and valve sizes were whatever they put in the raw casting when ordered for sale to OUR market.
popular 10-20 years ago, when people speak of 043 heads they mean the mexican 043H
but not all heads with 043 casting number are the same, there are many, probably 10 different kinds. Different plants in different countries. There are even things like mexican 311 heads, i have a pair now.
Autolinea is in brazil, vw of mexico was in mexico, I doubt they are the same molds shared between countries, the molds are probably all worn out anyway, but these days it's not hard to copy things. I could be wrong. who knows what happens down there. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Teeroy  Samba Member

Joined: April 20, 2003 Posts: 3842 Location: Eastern WA
|
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2025 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
For a smaller engine you will make more torque with small valve heads over big valve heads. I just proved this on my 1776 Friday. Same engine, same car, same dyno different heads. Went from Berg P&P big valve heads 81whp 93 ft lbs torque, to Tims Super Stock P&P small valve heads 89 whp (did not expect this increase) and 100 ft lbs torque (expected this increase). _________________ Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
KitS Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2024 Posts: 58 Location: NV
|
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2025 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
Thanks for that Smurfy, I've been leaning that way. I guess it's always easy to pull the motor and swap the heads later. You were quite close in your estimate: it's a 76 X 92 engine with a W110 cam. The car is a tubular framed sand rail, never weighed it, but I'd guess less than 1200 pounds.
The engine in it now is a 1600 (or so I was told when I bought it) that is getting tired, oil pressure light comes on at idle when warm and pressure drops to under 10psi. It has a lot of leaks. But it still runs and pushes the car quite well.
This 2 litre build I am doing is a ground up. All new parts except the case, head castings, rockers and some of the valves. It's at short block stage now. I'll probably take it to long block today.
The case came to me thru Brothers, I had taken a case to them to work and it turned out to have cracks. So they sourced another for me and worked it to my specs. I can't say enough good about them, they do superior work and go the distance to help their customers.
KitS |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Dusty1 Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004 Posts: 2117
|
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2025 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
KitS wrote: |
I have a set of heads that Brothers did for me. They are standard German 35.5 X 32, have had their combustion cambers blended and opened up to 58CC. |
I've been buying NOS heads, some Old School and some relatively new.
Starting with the peashooters, I haver a couple sets of 113 101 373Bs. Those are NOS German 1300 single ports. They're very closely related to the heads we run in Formula Vee. Compared to 77mm x 64mm in a Vee a 1300 is a stroker. Woo- Hoo!
Gathered up a couple pairs of 040 casting single ports. We might find the 040 prefix on single ports or dual ports. Compared to a "by the book" Formula Vee a 1600 single port is a heck of a "cheater" motor.
At least one set of 040 single ports is going on an old school "race gas" Class 5 1600 desert motor.
Then we get into the fun stuff. I like old school 041s. The state of the art has moved on. I remember when 041s were all the rage.
I believe the 042 prefix is an aftermarket part number.
Which brings us to 043s. Those are VW's attempt at a head that will take the heat. The good ones as far as I'm concerned came with TRW stainless steel valves with 9mm stems on the exhaust valves. Real 043 castings came with 3/4" reach spark plugs.
I'm pretty sure Autolinea ended up with the 043 molds right around the time they totally forgot how to make clean die cast aluminum parts. To my experience the Autolinea GO1, GO2 and GO3 castings are sloppier than similar parts that bore the VW logo.
Got a nice set of round port CB 044s. Near as I can tell CB holds Autolinea to a higher standard on their castings. CB Performance puts quite a bit of work into making good lookin' heads.
CB Performance owns CNC machinery and more to the point they own the CNC program that yields consistent mass production heads. My personal preference is CB's CNC machined Autolinea castings otherwise known as 044s or Panchitos.
My new nickname is gonna be "Smurfy". I'm holding my breath and turning
blue waiting for Brian e to get enough Revmasters to go around.
KitS:
If you have a set of Brothers massaged German heads, run 'em. Near as I can tell your formula is a tube framed buggy (likely lightweight), 78mm x 90.5mm 2 liter, 29" tall tires and a 4.37 diff. Practical redline is 4000rpm. There may be more in it but you probably won't go there.
Your Brothers heads will likely make your buggy an off road rocket sled. You be Wile E. Coyote about to light an Acme rocket.
Improving over your Brothers heads will cost close to another $1000 when the dust settles for "premium" heads. Obvious choices would be Panchitos or Greg Tims'. You would get the bragging rights of a motor that makes more high rpm power.
Inexpensive big valve heads come with cheapo valves and cheapo springs. It's perpetual motion attempting to make the cheap stuff good.
Spending other people's money is way more fun than spending our own.
I'm gathering parts for a motor similar to yours. I'm going 74mm x 90.5mm built on a new Motorav case. That's 1905cc. I'm going to keep the cam conservative, the idea being to be able to turn it up with ratio rockers. It's going to be an adventure indexing the rockers (various brands) so I know what I have for actual lift. I'm going to slap an NOS set of German heads on it for a baseline. Like I said, I have a few heads. They're not difficult to change.
The part the "big valve" head guys don't mention:
Like I said, Volkswagen designed the 043s to take the heat. I hear the big valve head guys touting their horsepower numbers. Will those motors still be makin' power at 50,000 miles?
First place stock VW heads crack is valve seat to valve seat. That area gets thin to non- existent when we machine for oversized seats.
I've never seen a stock VW head drop a seat. It may happen. I've never seen it.
.
. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
KitS Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2024 Posts: 58 Location: NV
|
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
Off road, sand rail. Stock sedan swing axle. 29" X 10" rears or 30 X 15 paddles. Rarely hitting 4K RPM.
I have a set of heads that Brothers did for me. They are standard German 35.5 X 32, have had their combustion cambers blended and opened up to 58CC. The ports and passages were cleaned of all casting artifacts and smoothed out. The guides, springs, keepers and locks have all been replaced. A three angle valve job was done. They have the stock rockers but have had a solid rocker shaft kit from Empi installed. They were bored for 92mm thick wall cylinders.
All in all, a good chunk of change. I will buy another set of heads if needed but really want to get it right the second time if I do.
Help!
KitS |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Brian_e  Samba Member

Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 4003 Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
|
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
KitS wrote: |
OK, how about the "Mini D" head from Brothers? Remember ing here that I am not looking for high RPM, low end torque is more important to me. |
Too big. The round port 40x35, or the AA Stage 1 heads would be better. The stage 1 from AA are done by Brothers. I have had them on the flow bench, and they are far better than an unported head, but not as good as a Tims S1.
Like Dusty said......It would be handy if you told us more about what this thing is going in.
Brian _________________ So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok
Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com
Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Dusty1 Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004 Posts: 2117
|
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
KitS wrote: |
OK, how about the "Mini D" head... |
Unless everyone here is familiar with your Bug or Buggy we're all throwin' spaghetti, myself included.
The engine guys will ask the usual engine questions, how big, what cam and so forth but I can't visualize at all what this hypothetical motor is going in. Bug or Bus transmission? Differential ratio? Stock or custom gears?
Rear tire size?
I can take Jack Sacchette's best motor, bolt it up to a stock '73 Bug transaxle and try to turn 33" tall off- road tires. I might end up with one gear that's good for something.
The real eye opener for me was a stock Bus transaxle with no taller than 31" tires. Third gear is an instant monster with a nice combination of moderate climbing ability and then good engine braking coming down the other side. If third gear isn't monstrous enough I can always downshift.
.
. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
KitS Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2024 Posts: 58 Location: NV
|
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
OK, how about the "Mini D" head from Brothers? Remember ing here that I am not looking for high RPM, low end torque is more important to me. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Brian_e  Samba Member

Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 4003 Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
|
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
DesertSasquatchXploration wrote: |
Car craft heads are the same as larrys offroad they are a super budget line AA brand. Sold as IAP or kuhltek car craft just raised the price last month they were under 200 for new heads 100% china everything springs valves keepers seats. |
I am an AA dealer, and they don't list a 39x35 head, or a 40x35 in anything other that their 500, 501, and 502 castings. At least not on my recent price sheet from them. I would be skeptical of anything lower grade than the 500 stuff.
I have had untouched aa500 "big valve" 40x35 heads on the flowbench. They flow up to about 125-128cfm at .300-.400", and then they start making a bad whistling noise, and they are done flowing. No more gain after around .350" lift. Most all untouched "Big Valve" heads are similar to this.
I have built and tested LOTS of aa500 35x32 heads. With minimal port work, and a really good valve job, the 35mm intakes have NO problem flowing 135-138cfm up to .500" They also have zero noise which is a good thing. Any buffeting, screaming, whistling, or popping noises are a really bad thing in a port.
Brian _________________ So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok
Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com
Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
DesertSasquatchXploration Samba Member

Joined: April 16, 2021 Posts: 973
|
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
Car craft heads are the same as larrys offroad they are a super budget line AA brand. Sold as IAP or kuhltek car craft just raised the price last month they were under 200 for new stock heads 100% china everything springs valves retainers keepers seats.
Car craft was selling those Big valve heads for 219 making them the cheapest new big valve head available. I looked at them the engine builder suggested them for my little 1776 they are stock ports with big valves installed. no bowl work they are ugly.
But if you need new stock heads cheap on a stock engine Car Craft heads will work he has great prices but good quality heads they are not.
Last edited by DesertSasquatchXploration on Fri Jun 27, 2025 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Brian_e  Samba Member

Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 4003 Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
|
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
Never seen any before. The stage 1 hand ported might be OK, but it depends on who did the work, and how good the valve job is. The "Big Port" option is most likely just the as cast aa502's.
If you want something 100% ready to bolt on, that will work fantastic, and last, the your best bet is a set of S1 heads from Greg Tims. They are a little more money, but worth it. He will also do the manifolds for them, and make the CC's and bore size exactly what you need. The other option would be CNC ported from CB.
Most all the other heads will need some form of work to be done before they are ready. Panchito's need the exhaust bowls blended. AA502's need blending and a valve job, etc...
Figure out how much you are willing to spend, or how much work you are willing to do yourself. Trying to cheap out on the heads is a bad mistake. Correct heads are the biggest part of the equation.
Brian _________________ So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok
Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com
Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
sled Samba Member

Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 6248
|
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
you get what you pay for, ESPECIALLY with heads. There's a reason those heads are so cheap. _________________ drive your split. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Brian_e  Samba Member

Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 4003 Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
|
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
Not sure what those heads are supposed to be??
They say 044, but they are not CB 044 heads. They have the 39mm intake like an old 041 head. The part number says 042 like a Mofoco head, and they look like a mofoco head, with the stock style chamber, and a step.
Sure would be nice if they provided some more pictures of them. I am guessing they are just stock style castings with big valves slammed in like all the other "Big Valve" heads.
Brian _________________ So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok
Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com
Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts
Last edited by Brian_e on Fri Jun 27, 2025 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
KitS Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2024 Posts: 58 Location: NV
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
DesertSasquatchXploration Samba Member

Joined: April 16, 2021 Posts: 973
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Dusty1 Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004 Posts: 2117
|
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
jpaull wrote: |
Dusty1 wrote: |
jpaull wrote: |
If you had a large cc engine, with mild cam, and the heads dont flow enough air, using stock heads would restrict the airflow enough that you lose both torque and horsepower. |
That's High Performance Urban Legend.
Velocity is as important as volume.
. |
You obviously have never experienced a engine that has valves/ports that are too small for the engine. |
Would be Formula Vee alchemist here. The FV engine builder I'm working with claims 75hp @ 7500rpm from a 40 horse built with all stock parts.
They say it isn't possible. Yet these things wail like hillbilly Indycars.
Most motorists never notice their tiny valves. They run out of numbers on their speedometers before their engines run out of air.
.
. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Brian_e  Samba Member

Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 4003 Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
|
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
jpaul is correct. The upper RPM limit is set by the smallest Cross Sectional Area in the whole port. This can be figured out using math.
Big engines with a small CSA will pull hard, but then fall on their face quick and early. You can keep adding throttle, and it just won't pull anymore. That is because the cylinders can't be filled due to the small CSA.
This is why it is most important to design the whole engine as a package. You can figure out the MCSA needed depending on your displacement and upper RPM limit you plan to rev. Then use that number to calculate the correct valve size that will get the engine to its RPM. The rest of the port MUST also be made to work with the CSA. This is where most heads are screwed up. Like the typical "Big Valve" head which is nothing more than a 40mm valve stuffed into a stock diameter port. They flow just like a stock valve head, and often worse.
Once you know the valve size, you can then pick a cam with the duration that will suite your RPM range, and the lift that suits your heads flow potential.
A well thought out engine, with all components carefully matched to a specific RPM range is awesome to drive. Lots of usable power, with a wide powerband. A poorly matched combo will be soft down low, and then cut off early.
Brian _________________ So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok
Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com
Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
jpaull Samba Member

Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3645 Location: Paradise, Ca
|
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
Dusty1 wrote: |
jpaull wrote: |
If you had a large cc engine, with mild cam, and the heads dont flow enough air, using stock heads would restrict the airflow enough that you lose both torque and horsepower. |
That's High Performance Urban Legend.
Velocity is as important as volume.
. |
You obviously have never experienced a engine that has valves/ports that are too small for the engine. If its a urban legend, then you can keep gaining torque with the smaller valve right? So install 2mm X 1.5mm valves and see how much torque you have. You can have 200mph air speed through those tiny valves, but if you dont have the volume flowing through the valves you dont have the volume in the chamber either.
If you have the proper valve that flows what the rest of the cam/cc can do, you will have more torque then the engine with the undersized valves.
This is where the vw community sucks. Everyone says "big valves" "Single Rev" springs, "long rods" , "freeway flier" with some type of mysterious "standard" that is to be denoted from those catch phrases. And alot of standard wives tales of how each performs. _________________ [email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Brian_e  Samba Member

Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 4003 Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
|
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Heads |
|
|
Panchito's with the bowls blended will be about the perfect heads for what you are doing.
Anything much bigger will loose torque down low.
If its low end torque you are after, I would run a web 218 instead of the boring w110. 9.0:1 will also work great, and make the power down low better.
Brian _________________ So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok
Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com
Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|