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Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: PNW
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 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2025 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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I was recently in Pullman picking up my kid from college. The campus is on a hill with a few pretty steep grades. When I stopped to pick him up, I heard the clattering of valves. Ended up I sucked air going up the hill.
Didn't know it at the time, I thought I dropped a valve seat or something.
I was a little low on oil, but not too much. A roadside pulling of the rocker assembly and checking the lifters didn't show much. I added another quart of oil for peace of mind and made it the 310 miles home without incidence.
Having a pan that I holds 5 quarts or more, and an accurate dipstick sure would provide some peace of mind.
I have been contemplating raising my engine to the max and going back to a stock new style pan. I think the stock EJ22 pan is about 6-3/4" in height. I wonder if I can get an inch or two more in engine height? Anyone know the height of new style stock pan? I think I currently have 9" from the bottom of the pan to ground which seems to be plenty.
I will do some measuring when my wife gets back with the van...it's dog walk time....
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'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
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MSGGrunt
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2023
Posts: 243
Location: Western, MA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2025 4:20 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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As always Sodo, you are a wealth of information. An easy mod and nothing lost if it doesn't make a difference and everything to gain if it does.
I ended up ordering the Van Cafe pan. They advertise a full 5-quart capacity, we will see. This, along with a larger filter mentioned earlier and an external oil cooler, will add even a little bit more oil capacity, though not a significant amount. |
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harvgwen
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2021
Posts: 291
Location: Okanagan Valley, British Columbia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2025 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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Sodo thanks for posting that. I very recently installed a SmallCar pan, and was also surprised to note that it didn’t have baffles or that drain tube. After reading this thread (before your post), I was hoping I hadn’t made a mistake buying it, but at the same time, like you said, thinking that there must be a lot of Vanagons with these that aren’t killing their engines. I can see why they wouldn’t be a good choice for more serious off roading. I only have a few hundred miles on the oil pan, but so far haven’t noticed any issues. The clearance is way better (I did hit the Subie pan a couple of times).
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1986 Westfalia Vanagon, 2.2 Subaru
Okanagan Valley, British Columbia |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 10614
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2025 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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| Franklinstower wrote: |
| I guess I really need to pull the pan, fill it with 4.5 quarts and and make new marks. |
Pull the pan???? Or pull the oil?
Drain the oil, put in 3.5 qts, make your 3.5 qt mark.
Add one quart, make your 4.5qt mark.
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I will suggest that with thousands of cavernous non-baffled Smallcar pans out there, surviving,
that "non-baffled" has been tested and approved by the Vanagon masses.
Mind you this testing is on RVs, not track-racers cornering hard at peak HP output.
Some of these RVs (Syncros) test often with very high lean angles, but relatively low RPM and low combustion pressures.
Much more significant than baffling is the oil-appetite of some EJ25s.
For that, you want more quarts. More quarts is better for oil longevity too, and then for engine longevity too.
3.75 qts could get dangerously low (2.75qt) after your oil-drinker EJ drinks one quart.
based upon this "theory" I extended the PCV oil drain to "below oil level". To be similar to what Subaru did.
I don't know if it helps, but I do know my PCV hoses have very little oil in them.
The Smallcar pan and its mounts allow for re-mounting the Syncro skid bars which can be modified to protect the oilpan.
You cannot re-mount Syncro engine bars with the VanCafe exhaust.
I don't think any engine or pan or exhaust protection can be built for the VanCafe system, so I personally would not choose that for a Syncro.
VanCafe exhaust is very vulnerable..... so I would definitely agree to limit off-roading to 'gravel roads ONLY' .
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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CTSkim
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Chester, CT
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2025 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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I have no real world experience with it yet, but I just ordered the van cafe pan and am initially very impressed with the construction/welds. It won't be installed for a few more weeks so if theres anything you'd like a photo or measurement of I can certainly grab that.
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Project 67 Beetle
72 Sierra Yellow Westy
82 Tin Top Vanagon |
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AndyBees
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 2620
Location: Southeast Kentucky
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2025 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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I did read the initial post to this Thread and looked at the links.
As others have posted, I have no experience with a Subaru conversion, zero.
But, here is my experience with a TDI.
I probably spent over $600 on custom made oil pans because there were no aftermarket pans for the 50 degree lay over of the engine (OE Diesel style) when I was doing my conversion.
The first two were aluminum. One was badly designed. The second one was perfectly designed, with baffles. But, it eventually cracked.
The third one has been awesome.
Stainless Steel......... about 5.5 quarts.
No lower than the transmission.
No baffles......... I've used it for close to 75k miles. I've never seen the
Oil Pressure Gauge flicker or drop due to sucking air during sharp corning because of the lack of baffles.
So, the prices you are seeing are not bad and thank to the aftermarket for their availability.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI, two trips to Alaska, 2014 & 16. 1989 Tin-top unmolested.
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine, seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. 1975 Bay hopeful. |
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a914622
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2004
Posts: 915
Location: Westend of HWY2 , Wash
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2025 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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I’m still running the stock 2000 Subaru .
Looking to order a 2010 setup, or at least the baffling
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87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11197
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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| Franklinstower wrote: |
| a914622 wrote: |
So I was changing the oil today . Walking the drain pan to the recycling bucket the oil slosh got out of control and I spilled. Laughing i thought, this is what is going on in the pan all the time. I could not see running with it and not spilling, lol
Just saying. |
Which oil pan do you have?
I am currently using the burley pan, and he said it holds 4.75 quarts, but that is about 1 1/2" higher on the dip stick than the stock high oil mark....I guess I really need to pull the pan, fill it with 4.5 quarts and and make new marks. For some reason I thought I did that, and 5 quarts was the top of the pan, which would be way to high.
I would really like to have 5 to 6 quart capacity. |
I have that pan and have the same thing. Someone etched some marks on the stick, but after I put in the specified amount of oil it still reads high.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1989 Westfalia |
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Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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| a914622 wrote: |
So I was changing the oil today . Walking the drain pan to the recycling bucket the oil slosh got out of control and I spilled. Laughing i thought, this is what is going on in the pan all the time. I could not see running with it and not spilling, lol
Just saying. |
Which oil pan do you have?
I am currently using the burley pan, and he said it holds 4.75 quarts, but that is about 1 1/2" higher on the dip stick than the stock high oil mark....I guess I really need to pull the pan, fill it with 4.5 quarts and and make new marks. For some reason I thought I did that, and 5 quarts was the top of the pan, which would be way to high.
I would really like to have 5 to 6 quart capacity.
_________________
'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
YITB |
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a914622
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2004
Posts: 915
Location: Westend of HWY2 , Wash
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| Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2025 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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So I was changing the oil today . Walking the drain pan to the recycling bucket the oil slosh got out of control and I spilled. Laughing i thought, this is what is going on in the pan all the time. I could not see running with it and not spilling, lol
Just saying.
_________________
87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru |
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MSGGrunt
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2023
Posts: 243
Location: Western, MA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2025 4:21 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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| Capacity can also be increased with the use of an oil cooler, but that and an extra capacity filter doesn't solve the problem of starvation at the pickup. I guess it is all a tradeoff. For my purposes and since I already bought the Van Cafe engine cradle I will go with their oil pan. At least I will be confident their parts work with each other. |
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Jake de Villiers
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Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5930
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2025 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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With respect to capacity, I use a Wix 51344 filter help with that.
Similar drain back provision and bypass pressure to stock Subaru but holds a little more than twice as much oil while remaining above the bottom of the pan.
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7.5 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12282
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 10:19 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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Any oil pan that is wider than stock has more of a potential for the oil pickup to be starved as oil sloshes to a side during a combination of cornering, engine acceleration and surface grade.
Deep sumps have the potential to get damaged and lose the oil.
Not all oil pans work with other company engine carrier system designs.
Things to think about when buying |
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a914622
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2004
Posts: 915
Location: Westend of HWY2 , Wash
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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Now that’s a work of art!!
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87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru |
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skemems
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2017
Posts: 247
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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| MSGGrunt wrote: |
| Is the Van Cafe pan the only shortened pan that retains the stock capacity? |
Stock capacity is about 4.5q.
Each company has listed oil capacity with their oil pan, depending which pan your looking into their site should list capacity.
_________________
87 VW Westfalia - EJ25
86 VW Westfalia - EJ22
85 VW Westfalia - WBX 2.1 project |
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MSGGrunt
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2023
Posts: 243
Location: Western, MA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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| Is the Van Cafe pan the only shortened pan that retains the stock capacity? |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17126
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1991
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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| skemems wrote: |
| dobryan wrote: |
Wonder what the depth dimension of their pan is? |
Description says its 60mm reduction in height from stock pan.
Seem to be similar to the outfront motorsport pan (cut and welded) with fins for heat dissipation. Capacity is only 3.75L. Would not be my first choice. |
Yes, I agree about the capacity, otherwise a really nice pan especially equipped with their baffles found here:
https://www.zanzinger-automobiltechnik.de/OEl-Schwall-Blech-Kit-passend-fuer-Subaru-EJ/010-011
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'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug
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skemems
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2017
Posts: 247
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2025 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Subaru EJ25 Shortened Oil Pan Options |
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| dobryan wrote: |
Wonder what the depth dimension of their pan is? |
Description says its 60mm reduction in height from stock pan.
Seem to be similar to the outfront motorsport pan (cut and welded) with fins for heat dissipation. Capacity is only 3.75L. Would not be my first choice.
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87 VW Westfalia - EJ25
86 VW Westfalia - EJ22
85 VW Westfalia - WBX 2.1 project |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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