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TxKahuna
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2011
Posts: 22
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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 Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:54 am Post subject: 1.7-2.0 Type 4 engine to a Type 1 IRS trans? |
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I have a 75 standard Type 1 with a IRS transaxle!
I have a chance to get a 1.7 or 2.0 Type 4 bus engine at a good
price has anyone mated this engine to a Beetle IRS trans.
before and can it be done? |
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Brian
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Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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TxKahuna
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2011
Posts: 22
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:52 am Post subject: Type 4 motor to Type 1 trans! |
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| How is that? Don't you just beef up the trans and clutch? |
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Brian
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Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:58 am Post subject: |
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custom mount, either the strap kit or 10 degree mount. the 10 degree allow you to keep the shifter in the tunnel, after you notch the frame horns. then you need conversion stubs axles to use bus Cvs. then either bus or type 4complete axles.
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yamaducci
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Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 2373
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| lustig69 wrote: |
| custom mount, either the strap kit or 10 degree mount. the 10 degree allow you to keep the shifter in the tunnel, after you notch the frame horns. then you need conversion stubs axles to use bus Cvs. then either bus or type 4complete axles. |
The OP was asking about an engine swap not a transaxle swap.
To answer the question.
Yes it can be done with a flywheel conversion and a new clutch to match. That's it besides the upright tin conversion so you can cool it in a beetle unless it's a baja or buggy.
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My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
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yamaducci
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Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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TxKahuna
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Joined: May 08, 2011
Posts: 22
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:40 am Post subject: Type 4 motor to Type 1 trans! |
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| My Type 1 tranny is a freeway flyer and it's a Baja! So all I have to do is a flywheel and clutch upgrade, right! I didn't understand what lustig69 was talking about! Both engines are carbureted not FI! |
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yamaducci
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Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 2373
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Type 4 motor to Type 1 trans! |
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| TxKahuna wrote: |
| My Type 1 tranny is a freeway flyer and it's a Baja! So all I have to do is a flywheel and clutch upgrade, right! I didn't understand what lustig69 was talking about! Both engines are carbureted not FI! |
Then you are good to go. It's an easy swap unless you want off road exhaust for a typw 4 then the price tag goes way up. That is one thing he was right about. T4's are expensive to modify. Then again what Air cooled engine isn't these days?
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My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
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TxKahuna
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2011
Posts: 22
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:18 pm Post subject: Type4 engine to a Type 1 Transaxle! |
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| I wrote to [email protected] twice and both times it was kicked back at me as email no good! did they go out of business? |
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VWporscheGT3
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Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 2174
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt it, call them up
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Bad bug
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Joined: March 11, 2006
Posts: 1160
Location: Jamaica
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Type4 engine to a Type 1 Transaxle! |
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| TxKahuna wrote: |
| I wrote to [email protected] twice and both times it was kicked back at me as email no good! did they go out of business? |
Txkahuna you don't have to change the flywheel with any conversion. All that needs to be done if you have a 228mm flywheel on the engine is remove the little bearing that's in the crank ( this procedure must be done regardless of FW size 210,215 or 228 ) and press in a new bearing in the center of the flywheel as the bearing give support to the shaft that's in the gearbox.
If you are running the 228mm flywheel you need to clearance the bellhouse of your t1 gearbox. You also need a starter to fit your setup ( will check on this can't remember which will fit ).
I also advise you to have a kafer cup bar or some sort of strengthening done to frame horns as the t4 is a very torquey engine. |
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Bret Young
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Joined: August 26, 2006
Posts: 760
Location: Turlock, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Type4 engine to a Type 1 Transaxle! |
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| Bad bug wrote: |
| TxKahuna wrote: |
| I wrote to [email protected] twice and both times it was kicked back at me as email no good! did they go out of business? |
Txkahuna you don't have to change the flywheel with any conversion. All that needs to be done if you have a 228mm flywheel on the engine is remove the little bearing that's in the crank ( this procedure must be done regardless of FW size 210,215 or 228 ) and press in a new bearing in the center of the flywheel as the bearing give support to the shaft that's in the gearbox.
If you are running the 228mm flywheel you need to clearance the bellhouse of your t1 gearbox. You also need a starter to fit your setup ( will check on this can't remember which will fit ).
I also advise you to have a kafer cup bar or some sort of strengthening done to frame horns as the t4 is a very torquey engine. |
Thats a ton of work. Just buy the conversion flywheel then your stock clutch can bolt right onto it and will fit in. Your gonna have the clearance the hell out of your tranny to fit a 228mm clutch in there. |
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sactojesse
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Vanapplebomb
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Joined: November 03, 2010
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Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Best way in my opinion is to get the stock flywheel machined so the bearing can be pressed in. 200mm conversion flywheels are kinda dumb in my opinion. The 210 and 215mm flywheels fit in all 12 volt bell housings and have the advantage of more surface area and larger diameter for the clutch disk. This results is slower wear and increased torque handling without increasing pedal pressure. With a little bit of clearancing, 228mm clutches can be made to fit, but personally I would avoid anything that required clearancing a 12 volt bell housing.
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one4house
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Joined: July 18, 2009
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Location: Sherman Texas
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Bad bug
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006
Posts: 1160
Location: Jamaica
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Type4 engine to a Type 1 Transaxle! |
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| Bret Young wrote: |
| Thats a ton of work. Just buy the conversion flywheel then your stock clutch can bolt right onto it and will fit in. Your gonna have the clearance the hell out of your tranny to fit a 228mm clutch in there. |
Bret nothing beats stock parts quality. I think this guy should use stock parts on this build. If his setup is running a 228mm flywheel the clearancing can be done on the bellhouse.
If he has a 210 or 215 no clearancing. |
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Bret Young
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Joined: August 26, 2006
Posts: 760
Location: Turlock, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Type4 engine to a Type 1 Transaxle! |
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| Bad bug wrote: |
| Bret Young wrote: |
| Thats a ton of work. Just buy the conversion flywheel then your stock clutch can bolt right onto it and will fit in. Your gonna have the clearance the hell out of your tranny to fit a 228mm clutch in there. |
Bret nothing beats stock parts quality. I think this guy should use stock parts on this build. If his setup is running a 228mm flywheel the clearancing can be done on the bellhouse.
If he has a 210 or 215 no clearancing. |
Understandable. OG parts are good, but I had one of the 200mm conversion flywheels in an upright converted type 4 motor in my bug. It was perfect. The plus side to the conversion flywheel.......I feel its much easier to find places that carry 200mm clutches/pressure plates compared to 210 and 215 clutches....those are getting harder to find these days...... |
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Vanapplebomb
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Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5572
Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of places still have 210 and 215 clutch disks available. Pressure plates are a bit more tricky to come by, but the pressure plates and flywheels last a long time and can be resurfaced to restore the surface in contact with the disk.
You would spend a lot of money on a conversion flywheel, high clamping pressure diaphragm, and a good disk disk just to get the same thing done as simply moving the pilot bearing, which really is no big deal at all.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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nextgen
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Posts: 6137
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:13 am Post subject: |
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You can take a used disc and have new pads put on it. Did that 100k ago, same clutch. The bearing most of the time does not need machining to fit. Clean up the hole in the flywheel and some just press in.
Also you can use any Type I Disc and I have seen some guys go that route because the T-1 has many performance discs.
They are just a bit smaller.
A Type 4 clutch lasts forever in bugs. They were made for 2 ton loaded buses.
Funny the first thing I noticed when on my first T-4 conversion drive up my driveway was the gripping power of the clutch on the hill.
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Bad bug
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2006
Posts: 1160
Location: Jamaica
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Type4 engine to a Type 1 Transaxle! |
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| Bret Young wrote: |
| I feel its much easier to find places that carry 200mm clutches/pressure plates compared to 210 and 215 clutches....those are getting harder to find these days...... |
Really. Please take a look at the below link.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/VW-Clutch-Discs-s/143.htm
Also if this guy in the future wants to get serious about gearbox choice, if he runs a 228mm flywheel he can run a porsche 901 ( weaker of the lot ),914,915 or shortnose g 50/50 unit.
Have a look at kennedy website to see how much torque the different stages in clutch can handle with a stock disk
228mm flywheel clutch
http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/228mmClutches.aspx
200mm flywheel clutch
http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/200mmClutches.aspx |
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