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70 Square 'Papa Smurf'
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one4house
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: 70 Square 'Papa Smurf' Reply with quote

My adventure to Arizona paid off. I was able to pick up a 1970 Squareback.

The Good:
No Rust, No bondo, great wiring, all electrical works, new window seals all the way around. New door, trunk and hatch seals included in sale. New headliner and carpet set.

The bad:
Motor WAY!!!!!! out of tune. I think it is just an issue with the carbs, but I have an extra engine that I dropped out of my donor car in the garage that I am going to drop in for now. Being an Arizona car, the heat exchangers were taken off and replaced with J tubes and some cans. It is way LOUD!
Blinker switch was missing, ignition switch was toast, no glovebox and brakes need to be gone through. The paint looks to have been done in a hurry. Looks a little crappy.

The nice part is that I have a 69 parts car that I picked up for under $300 sitting out in the backyard. It already sacrificed its back seat, glovebox, package area mat and door latch to the new car.

I need to get the door and hood rubber installed. That is the reason that none of the panels look like they fit in these images.

We left Colorado at 3pm on Friday and returned from our adventure at 8:30 AM on Sunday. We do not play. 1600 miles in a little under 40 hours. BEAST!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I am only posting images for 3 of the pictures I have. For those interested, you can click on the link below.

http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa3.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa4.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa5.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa6.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa7.jpg

http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa8.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa9.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa10.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa11.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa12.jpg

http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa13.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa14.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa15.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa16.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa17.jpg

http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa18.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa19.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa20.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa21.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa22.jpg

http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa23.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa24.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa25.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa26.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa27.jpg

http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa28.jpg
http://www.one4house.com/images/square/papa29.jpg
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Last edited by one4house on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:35 am; edited 8 times in total
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now we just need to figure out how to get your 5 threads all in 1 spot, to make it easier to keep track of. Looks like a nice car (your pics are really huge, and take forever to load, so I won't be much help with them).
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Tram wrote:
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joey1320
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great find Wink Wink Wink Wink
Have fun with it!
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one4house
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
Now we just need to figure out how to get your 5 threads all in 1 spot, to make it easier to keep track of. Looks like a nice car (your pics are really huge, and take forever to load, so I won't be much help with them).


So you're the one person in America still on dial-up? Broadband is your friend. Come to the dark side. You will love it.
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My Old 64 Field Find
My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
My Old 70 Squareback
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Woreign
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob lives beyond the limits of cable and DSL. His only option would be satellite, and it's way too expensive! I'm not sure, but I suspect that cellular reception is weak too. But if not, you could get a 3g/4g modem.
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vlad01
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woreign wrote:
Bob lives beyond the limits of cable and DSL. His only option would be satellite, and it's way too expensive! I'm not sure, but I suspect that cellular reception is weak too. But if not, you could get a 3g/4g modem.


we have similar problems in Oz, we are so behind on internet technology its not even funny.

But lucky for me I have adsl2+ via my own infrastructure I build before adsl was even mainstream here. Cool

I live in rural/regional area and I have faster internet than a lot of people in the city have lol. I work in the city and we can't get adsl2 only adsl in our industrial lot Laughing
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one4house
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started the process of the engine swap last night only to find the engine that was in it already had more compression. We went ahead and dropped it out, swapped the good carb setup off the old motor, replaced some tins that were missing and traded the j-tube setup for heat exchangers. We should get her back in this afternoon after work.

After that we need to bleed the brakes and install the door rubber. Then I can register it and get new tires and she will be back on the road. Here's to progress.
_________________
My Old 64 Field Find
My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
My Old 70 Squareback


Last edited by one4house on Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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one4house
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some in-process pictures. I have resized the images for those still living in the sticks. Smile

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Good one

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The donor.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Exhaust. I wonder how old this is?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Waiting patiently.
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My Old 70 Squareback
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for re-sizing the pics. Cool
As for that muffler, I'd scrap it. Those are the absolute worst set up you can have. They actually LOOSE HP on our engines, because they're restrictive. Shocked
That, and after the 2nd time you hit your shins on it, you'll be wanting to cut it off. Twisted Evil

The engine bay and rear floor surround look nice and clean and solid. Cool I don't jnow what the hatch gasket is off of though. Maybe some sort of import vehicle. Just so you know, you're missing the seal that goes on that lip above it (above the latch and oil filler/dip stick). Hopefully you got the engine hatch seal too (in your pile of seals), IF not, ISP West has them.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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one4house
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
Thanks for re-sizing the pics. Cool
As for that muffler, I'd scrap it. Those are the absolute worst set up you can have. They actually LOOSE HP on our engines, because they're restrictive. Shocked
That, and after the 2nd time you hit your shins on it, you'll be wanting to cut it off. Twisted Evil

The engine bay and rear floor surround look nice and clean and solid. Cool I don't jnow what the hatch gasket is off of though. Maybe some sort of import vehicle. Just so you know, you're missing the seal that goes on that lip above it (above the latch and oil filler/dip stick). Hopefully you got the engine hatch seal too (in your pile of seals), IF not, ISP West has them.


I was wondering about the exhaust. I will be putting it on for now, but with the solid look of the car I will be replacing it in the near future. I am still tying to sort out what direction I want to go......this motor may be temporary.

I have a lead on a type 4 out of a bus. I will keep that one under wraps for now.

The rear deck seal was pulled off of my 69 parts car. It is in crap shape, but it was better than nothing. That is why it looks like shit.

The engine bay seal was included. It will be going on today along with the door and hoood/trunk?!?! seal. Nice new seals all around.
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My Old 70 Squareback
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one4house
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobnotch, in another thread you said....

Quote:
I modified a t-3 engine hanger bar for mine, but IF I were to do it again, I'd probably use a bus bar instead.


can you point me in a direction for a thread or writeup on this modification? This is because of my interest in putting a type 4 in this car.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

one4house wrote:
bobnotch, in another thread you said....

Quote:
I modified a t-3 engine hanger bar for mine, but IF I were to do it again, I'd probably use a bus bar instead.


can you point me in a direction for a thread or writeup on this modification? This is because of my interest in putting a type 4 in this car.


I think if you looked at how either Nate, Mike, Dan, or even Supa Ninja did theirs, you'd get a good idea of how you want to set it up. I think Nick (Supa) posted some really clear shots of his conversion though. Keep in mind, all but Nate are using Swing Axle cars (Nate's was converted), and that might effect how you go about setting it up. You could even go to STF (Shop Talk Forums), and check out Pile Driver's car, as he's been running a t-4 engine for years in his T-3. He's on here occassionally, but not that often.

Mine went into an IRS car, and originally it was in an AT car when I built the brackets. But, the hanger does get in the way of trying to get the heater system to work, as it sits right in the middle of where you'd put the air hoses to move the heated air to the car. As a result of that, both cars I had the engine in, didn't have any heat. Not that you got a lot of heat out of stock t-4 boxes (car, not bus is what I used).
But the idea is to use a bus hanger bar, and make solid mounts to replace the rubber bushing mounts (or fab up something to take their place), and bolt the bus bar to the T-3 engine hangers. Ideally, you'd really want to get and mount a bus mid mount to the bottom of the floor deck (I think Nate did that with his), as that takes care of some of the added engine movement you can get. Keep in mind, you want to get rid of any possible side to side movement, along with taking care of the torsional effect of the T-4 engine on the rear hangers (the t-4 engine makes a lot of low end torque).
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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one4house
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my reading, the benefits of a stock, 2.0L , type 4 conversion are better power, better fuel efficiency and longer lasting engine because of the superior design. What are the other gains of the type 4 conversion?
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

one4house wrote:
In my reading, the benefits of a stock, 2.0L , type 4 conversion are better power, better fuel efficiency and longer lasting engine because of the superior design. What are the other gains of the type 4 conversion?


One of the criticisms of the Type IV was its crappy gas mileage, especially given the high expectations of the market for VW mileage. I doubt it will have better mileage than your Type III engine.
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one4house
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
one4house wrote:
In my reading, the benefits of a stock, 2.0L , type 4 conversion are better power, better fuel efficiency and longer lasting engine because of the superior design. What are the other gains of the type 4 conversion?


One of the criticisms of the Type IV was its crappy gas mileage, especially given the high expectations of the market for VW mileage. I doubt it will have better mileage than your Type III engine.


Will it be equal, or am I looking at losing MPG with the swap?
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When new, you would have seen a drop. At this age it will depend more on compression and your induction system. Might be better might be worse. MPG is not a reason to switch one way or the other.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
one4house wrote:
In my reading, the benefits of a stock, 2.0L , type 4 conversion are better power, better fuel efficiency and longer lasting engine because of the superior design. What are the other gains of the type 4 conversion?


One of the criticisms of the Type IV was its crappy gas mileage, especially given the high expectations of the market for VW mileage. I doubt it will have better mileage than your Type III engine.


stock maybe, well configured t4 will do 40mpg+
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one4house
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not much to report from last night. We did get the engine back in the car, but we were stopped by a extremely small access hole that we are supposed to be able to put the torque converter bolts in through. We will have to get the old grinder out today and get that remedied. I have no idea how someone did it before me unless they bolted the TC to the flex plate before and seated it into the tranny.

This was what I was trying to work with. If I had only had a grinder in the garage.....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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My Old 66 Squareback
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My Old 70 Squareback
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one4house
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I was replaying last night's adventure I thought about the vacuum line that needs to go to the automatic transmission. I do not believe that it was hooked up to anything when we took the engine out.

Can I just tee into the carb balancing tube to actuate this vacuum module? That would be manifold vacuum below the carb, so I am thinking this would work. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
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My Old 70 Squareback
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that will do until you convert it back to FI.

Wink
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