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KILLERWATT Samba Member

Joined: November 18, 2003 Posts: 3298 Location: Vero Beach
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:07 pm Post subject: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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Is there another company that makes a complete hardware kit besides Empi? Using a tourque wrench and even after chasing threads I've stripped out nuts on a couple of builds. |
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Glenn  Mr. 010

Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 79267 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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Ac.net has hardware kits. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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KILLERWATT Samba Member

Joined: November 18, 2003 Posts: 3298 Location: Vero Beach
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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Glenn wrote: |
Ac.net has hardware kits. |
Thanks Glenn! |
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jfats808 Samba Member

Joined: December 10, 2007 Posts: 5022 Location: oahu hawaii
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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I've probably used 12 sets from empi in 10mm and 8mm. How the he'll did you strip them out? 15-18 lbs on the 8mm, 23 lbs on the 10mm. Center mains 24-28 lbs. Never once stripped a set out. Are u using g the right torque tables? _________________ 2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD
Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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KTPhil  Samba Member

Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 35708 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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Muffler clamps are notoriously easy to break. Poor quality and the overstressing of the little 10mm nuts and bolts don't help. Make sure everything fits well before torqueing... no burrs or bent parts to have to force.
I use the smaller copper exhaust manifold nuts. Same caution applies-- make sure you aren't using nut torque to deform parts into fitting... file/bend flanges flat and square first.
Main and head nuts are special types and should not be overtorqued, despite the common temptation. |
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KILLERWATT Samba Member

Joined: November 18, 2003 Posts: 3298 Location: Vero Beach
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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jfats808 wrote: |
I've probably used 12 sets from empi in 10mm and 8mm. How the he'll did you strip them out? 15-18 lbs on the 8mm, 23 lbs on the 10mm. Center mains 24-28 lbs. Never once stripped a set out. Are u using g the right torque tables? |
Case and head nuts aren't the problem; it's the chrome 13mm head 8M nylock. Getting ready to do another engine and was wondering if there was an alternative. |
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modok Samba Member

Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 27575 Location: Colorado Springs
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jfats808 Samba Member

Joined: December 10, 2007 Posts: 5022 Location: oahu hawaii
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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KILLERWATT wrote: |
jfats808 wrote: |
I've probably used 12 sets from empi in 10mm and 8mm. How the he'll did you strip them out? 15-18 lbs on the 8mm, 23 lbs on the 10mm. Center mains 24-28 lbs. Never once stripped a set out. Are u using g the right torque tables? |
Case and head nuts aren't the problem; it's the chrome 13mm head 8M nylock. Getting ready to do another engine and was wondering if there was an alternative. |
You can continue buying the empi kit and replace nylon locknuts with std 8.8 hex nuts found at most hardware stores or supply shops. Simple. Maybe someone will have an alternative kit available. But I tell you I have yet to see one stripped nylon locknut happen to me on those kits with std torque applied. I guess they can go either way. Chinese metal.. _________________ 2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD
Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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Brian71 Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2005 Posts: 183 Location: Prineville, OR
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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A little bit of anti-seize goes a long way in preventing galling. |
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esde Samba Member

Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 6294 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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A few 100 count boxes of m8 and m10 nuts and bolts don't cost much and go a very long way. You quickly see that the hardware "kits" aren't really a deal.
Like Modok mentioned, flange nuts are great, and many places carry the small wrench size brass m8 for exhaust studs and such. _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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modok Samba Member

Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 27575 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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Bell Metric also sells the thick 8mm washers for head studs, which can be used for other things too. You can get flanged nuts for 6 main the case studs. |
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Zundfolge1432  Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12557
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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That's a good question what people never ask or think about is the drag or interference caused by a self locking fastener which will alter torque settings.. You don't need special fasteners you need to use green loctite on stock hardware. Oh I'm sorry that doesn't have a cool factor does it. |
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modok Samba Member

Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 27575 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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The purpose of a locknut is so that it cam be loose and not vibrate off entirely.
If your case bolts are loose, or fall off entirely, it makes no difference, both=fail. So what's the point? there is none. As far as the case is concerned loose is loose, and as far as oil and air leaks are concerned finger tight is not any different than it fell off. Locktite is also no needed, what would it do? nothing.
Now, for some things locknuts are good. For the one nut inside the case that holds the oil pickup, THAT is the right place for a locknut, because it would prevent the nut falling off and getting sucked into the oil pump should it become loose. It does have a high chance of coming loose too. Or, just use a bolt instead of a stud. For the engine mounts inside the bellhousing, good idea. Seatbelts should have locknuts/lockwashers, any single shear joint probably should have a locknut/lockwasher. The cooling tinshould have locknuts/lockwasehrs, ect. Right nut for the right job.
If you have any questions about hardware or the precise fitting of things in holes just ask this nut  |
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Zundfolge1432  Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12557
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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modok wrote: |
The purpose of a locknut is so that it cam be loose and not vibrate off entirely.
If your case bolts are loose, or fall off entirely, it makes no difference, both=fail. So what's the point? there is none. As far as the case is concerned loose is loose, and as far as oil and air leaks are concerned finger tight is not any different than it fell off. Locktite is also no needed, what would it do? nothing.
Now, for some things locknuts are good. For the one nut inside the case that holds the oil pickup, THAT is the right place for a locknut, because it would prevent the nut falling off and getting sucked into the oil pump should it become loose. It does have a high chance of coming loose too. Or, just use a bolt instead of a stud. For the engine mounts inside the bellhousing, good idea. Seatbelts should have locknuts/lockwashers, any single shear joint probably should have a locknut/lockwasher. The cooling tinshould have locknuts/lockwasehrs, ect. Right nut for the right job.
If you have any questions about hardware or the precise fitting of things in holes just ask this nut  |
Factory hardware always worked for me along with the green loctite. The drag created by self locking fasteners alters torque readings that's a fact. |
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modok Samba Member

Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 27575 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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the bright zinc plating is actually a larger factor, way more difference than the nylon drag.
New bright plated may have 25%less friction than bare steel at first, but after a few uses, it wears off and can be ignored.
If you use brand new bright plated locknuts on the rocker stud, and try 20 ft-lb, I bet it will strip out. The torque it takes to turn a locknut is very small. It's easy to test.....because you have a torque wrench |
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KILLERWATT Samba Member

Joined: November 18, 2003 Posts: 3298 Location: Vero Beach
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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KILLERWATT wrote: |
Glenn wrote: |
Ac.net has hardware kits. |
Thanks Glenn! |
The pic on aircooled.net is the same one I've seen for the Empi kit on other sites.
The flange nuts are a good idea. Thanks! |
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CSEBug Samba Member

Joined: August 26, 2013 Posts: 63 Location: Pennsylvania
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AlteWagen Troll

Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8692 Location: PNW
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KILLERWATT Samba Member

Joined: November 18, 2003 Posts: 3298 Location: Vero Beach
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuild Hardware Kit |
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Our local shop turned me on to this source. All hardware for the entire car including the engine. |
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