1.8t Engine Swap.... I Think?

[UtahGOgear]

Get comfy, this is going to be a puzzle.

Okay here's the thing- I just picked up an '85 Vanagon GL with 27k original miles and it's a gem (besides the huge scrape down the side because the PO was like 102 yrs old and missed the garage backing it up...) but anyway, it's way nicer in lots of little ways than our air cooled '82 was. We dropped the motor on our '82 in an Autozone parking lot once when we were traveling in it as newly weds and had no idea what we were doing... anyway... this '85 came with a 1.8t motor in it already installed- WELL SORT OF-

The sucker's in there, but that's about it! Everything seems to be great and the PO who sold it to me showed some pics of how they mated it and all. He said they bought a kit that came with the engine mount and stuff to mate it to the trans, and other than that he didn't know too much because his buddy did all the work on installing it. He claims, "all you have to do is the wiring harness and cooling and it will fire right up"

So I had cash in-hand and got excited to see a Vanagon with such a wonderful interior and all but with an "upgraded" and more reliable engine *(crap, you OG guys will probably argue that, but this 1.8t will push a lot more power and that's really what I'm after) So I bought the darn thing and the seller even hooked us up by delivering it to our house.

Now we're finishing up a '78 we just painted (I'll throw in a picture of that) and we're getting an engine we just bought from a crashed bus that had less than 30k OG miles on it that's a '78 westy (also see the pics...) but those are just projects to probably pass along and the Vanagon is one we're going to keep. I'm in kind of a hurry on this Vanagon because our son is due in about 2 months from now and it's our first and I'm a bit nervous but would really love a reliable Vanagon to DD without being worried it's going to brake down or overheat- or getting rear ended because we're going 20mph in a 60mph canyon...

Okay you guys- I've just written a novel here and I'm sure most readers have ether dropped off at this point or skimmed through the pictures and moved on, so to the few of you who are still with me here- please help me out a little if you can!! I don't know even where to start or what to do. Any help identifying parts in the pictures or any ideas on how complex the harness will be or ANYTHING really will for sure help as I'd like to get started on this next week.

Thanks in advance! I really appreciate it.

1. Pictures of mount in case anyone knows what "kit" this came from...

2. No idea what this is

3. What's supposed to go here??

4. Any idea what this thing is?

5. Picture of below...

6. Picture from above

7. Picture of ECU? Did this come from an Audi? PO said '97 Audi...?

8. Is this original stuff from the Vanagon? I imagine so... the coil and whatnot...

9. Any commentary would be cool, especially as to the part on the lower right that's just hanging there- yikes...

10. What's this/what goes here?

11. I've never touched a water cooled vw before, these are the stock tubes for the coolant, right?

12. Anther picture...

13. Do I really need this stuff? Anyone have any sources to a "how to do your wiring harness for a 1.8 vanagon swap"? I've looked all over and can't find much. Further exploration of course will take place. Also considering installing a "plug and play" harness from these guys- https://shop.eurowise.com/product-p/ew1390.htm
Is that a bad idea?

14. I imagine I need to keep that to run the coolant... literally have no clue how to run the cooling system.

15. Much more of the harness

16. This is the thing from 9 that is just hanging there. Any idea if it's needed or what's up with it?

here's the line-up! The middle one we painted this past week and we're trying to do interior work today. The one in the garage is that '78 westy I was ranting about in my short novel, and the white one is of course this puzzle.

Seriously any ideas or thoughts or commentary would be greatly appreciated. Again, I have never touched anything that hasn't been air cooled. All motorcycle and air cooled vw work experience in the past. I know that many of you might want to rip on me for just starting such a daft thread as this hoping for random input or direction, but this is mostly going to be to get further help throughout the process as well as post the entire build (or finishing it I suppose) so that someone else can have a source to reference in the future.

ANYTHING HELPS!!!
Thanks!

[tristessa]

That is a 1.8T -- I *think* an AEB based on the throttle body -- and it looks like someone did a half-assed job shoehorning it in there with diesel Vanagon mounting parts .. without getting all of the WBX parts out of the way first. Or cleaning anything. Or even labeling anything.

The AEB engine wiring isn't that difficult to connect to the Vanagon wiring system and have it work, assuming you have an unbutchered harness and all the ancillary pieces. MAF, ignition module, N75 valve, etc., etc.. More difficult is getting the oiling right with the engine at that mounting angle. You'll need to source the diesel Vanagon oil pump pickup tube and oil pan, and figure out the oil supply and return for the turbo .. and that's just off the top of my head.

If you were closer I'd offer to take a better look at it, but I'm in northwestern Oregon and from your screen name I'm guessing you're in Utah. Bit of a drive...

[UtahGOgear]

tristessa - thanks for the input! I've got a lot to learn on this one... wish you could swing by but yeah that's quite the drive! How do people usually do these swaps? I mean I know SAH has a kit you can order but other than that do they just buy manuals for both the donor car and bently and try to match things up? I guess I need to source a wiring diagram for this thing and learn a bit more about cooling and turbo lubrication and all the other things you mentioned -_- in the mean time I'll enjoy installing another aircooled into the camper before tackling this hacked-up westy.

Thanks though! I'll definitely keep things posted as they fall into place (and hopefully not apart!)

[levi]

Ok I don't want to sound mean, but there's not a lot different from that compared to buying a van with the engine separate.

First pic, looks like you might be showing part of the engine cradle.
A pic from underneath looking up at this would show what you have there.

Pic #3 is a very dirty turbo.
You need an air intake on that.

Not that first opening, but the one a little higher and to the left, inside what looks like a spiral.
Before doing anything else I would grab hold of the little pin inside and see how much play it has.
Just a tiny almost imperceptible amount of movement is good, more than that and the turbo could be done.
They're kinda expensive.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Audi+1.8t+air+line...6RfY8ZwjM:

And then an AFM, and an air filter.

The above rubber boot has a couple sensors attached, l see one of them hanging nearby.

#2 could be power steering reservoir.
Upside down is not a good idea for mounting it of course

Pic # 10 is where you attach throttle body, then air line to an intercooler, then air line over to the turbo.

And that's just to get you started.

You want to make sure you get parts for the correct 1.8t.
Looks like aeb, its stamped into the top of the engine right about where your hand is in pic # 11.

#16 water pump.

Yes it is needed.
Mounts with a bracket next to the right side of the crankshaft pulley.

Me, I'd just pull that whole thing, start over.
Research how you're going to plumb everything, what each item is, where it goes, how you're going to fabricate an exhaust system, etc.

Long ways to go.....

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

The above thread may help.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40

[levi]

[Zeitgeist 13]

Son, that there's a project you got there. Your nose will be buried in the Googles for some time to come if you want that to run properly.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[danfromsyr]

you are going to require alot more parts and knowledge..

you'll want to start collecting the knowledge 1st.. so you don't get the wrong parts. or much easier install them in an incorrect way.

you'll NEED an intercooler system.. yes it's not a part it's a whole system.

you'll need to make sure the waterpump is from an ABA jetta 2.0.. the AEB water pump is designed for a heating system w/o a shut off valve.. it will overheat


there are many great 1.8T threads in here, search bookmark and print out pages and abinder full of notes..

a thing about engine conversions... if it's not a specialty shop kit with 100% new parts,. then you OWN the frankenstein.. for cheap or expensive parts, for better or worse. every hose and electrical connection that you do is ALL on you... and can (often) fail at any inconvenient time..
good news is the AEB is the easiest to install, doesn't have an immobilizer or electronic pedal. but has some of it's own short comings.

I've taken my 1.8T DIY install from NY to UT twice.. it's a lovely engine to power these heavy bricks up over the mtns.. and down the 80mph speed limit interstates.

start here https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=378731


as for your power steering pump.. you'll either have to modify the engine carrier bar, try to reposition the pump. or eliminate the PS and install a manual steering rack (to regain leverage)
I have manual steering in my 1.8T powered van since mine was originally an air cooled van w/o power steering anyways. it's ok.. not great in city parking.
_________________

[metropoj]

Woah, that's a big project. Hopefully you ogt time to do it all right, lots to read up on. You got some nice breadloaves in the driveway to keep you happy until you compelte this project Or, sell it onwards if it is a little steep for what you want to get in to. This ain't your bay, that's for sure !

I also assume the motor is pre 99 Audi/VW block with some diesel components tacked on that tilts is over to 50 degrees. That's the easier of the ones to hook up.

I see homemade engine carrier bars.

The thing hanging around in #9 is your power steering pump and reservoir. Do you need it ? Technically no, you can convert to manual steering since you are a bay guy, you know about turning without it . I got spoiled with PS after my several bays.

As stated, probably diesel parts like the oil pump, pan. The conversion may have used a diesel bellhousing or an adapter plate, the PO should be able to answer that one or peek underneath where engine meets the tranny.

There are some excellent threads from Mr Gas, and the infamous Andrew Flint here on samba. I thank them for the time they spent sharing info and pics. I use that inspiration to make sure I document and post what i do in hopes to help someone else along the way.


It looks like the turbo hasn't been 'clocked' to take into consideration being over on its side 50 degrees. Is there an oil return line into the pan ?

The pics are a mismatch of Vanagon / 1.8t stuff.



I would suggest based on what I see doing the following (after you do a ton of reading on all of this swap) :

1. Test engine compression and leak down test. There are 20 valves that can leak in the head.

2. drop the motor, pull the oil pan and see that the correct oil pump and pickup tube are there.

3. Do timing belt, tensioner, seals, anything that needs to be done. Its easier outside of the van. See what shape the clutch is in and what flywheel you have ( solid or factory dual mass ).

4. Set up the turbo and other goodies. See how Andrew shaved down the intake manifold for better clearance or Mr Gas' ingenious welded manifold extender. They are both brilliant for different reasons.

5. There are some wiring diagrams out there thanks to a few. You'll need to remove the extra wires ( well should remove ) you don't need. I think only 5 or 6 wires run the whole system. It is wise to get VCDS code reader to see all the stuff in that ECU.


6. Build a deck lift to cover up that motor as it will most likely not fit under the decklid unless you take many steps to make it so. It is possible fyi ....

You are in for a decent expense and steep learning curve. You not only need to learn Vanagon, you also need to learn the AEB / ATW 1.8T.

Lastly, I have come across a few A4's running the AEB 1.8T. They also ran the ATW 1.8T.

I am in the early stages of doing a 1.8T AEB conversion with the flipped Passat Transmission



lastly lastly, if you are not aware yet, the rad pipes from front to back usually have issues. The plastic ones can seperate at the ends, the steel ones rot out. Be prepared to fork out a decent amount of coin making the vehicle safe with new tubes, brakes / lines / fuel overflow tank and tank seals, etc etc etc , heater core, blower fan and resisitor ... I got sticker shock going from my 79 westy to my 86 but these are pretty nice in their own way.

Happy travels !!
_________________
John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[metropoj]

[danfromsyr]

it has to do with the external water pump of the AEB (1.8T) vs the ABA (2.o)
may not be a factor in the later 1.8T blocks with the timing belt driven water pump.. I don't know on those yet.


here's Chris' thread on his problem with it.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=538069&highlight=1.8t
_________________

[metropoj]

Cool thanks. I'll be in the old camp with the AEB setup myself.
_________________
John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[markswagen]

There are a lot of words up there and I may3 not have read them all,

First thing I would do, if pull the engine back out, 1clean EVERYTHING remove the coolant pipes, wiring, anything that's in the way, clean the engine, then put it back, the mess that's been left off you to figure out, you have no idea what other gremlinsgremlins are hidden, is there a decent clutch in there, are the bolts tight, are the bolts holding the engine to the transmission correct and are they tight, the engine mounts, same there. IMHO you have to pull it apart before you start assembly.
Just think about how pissed you'd be if you got it running to find the freeze plug behind the flywheel is missing, ( I'm not sure if the is one, but you get my point)
_________________
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[vanagonjr]

[danfromsyr]

you know it's easy to raise the rear bench 1~1.5 inches to suit the rear cushion

if he went with 15* swap, he'd need a different bellhousing and input shaft, adapter plate, flywheel and clutch/pressure plate
as well as new engine mounting
as well as different starter


50* has it's challenges, there are only a couple 50* 1.8Ts on the samba,

time for some samba searching..
_________________

[MarkWard]

It looks like someone thought, I can throw a 1.8 turbo in there and have an awesome ride and then began to realize, bolting it to the diesel bellhousing was the easy part and gave up.

You have a giant project on your hands and if you can't recognize parts and have to ask, no offense, but you are probably way over your head on this project.

In answer to those that have done their own engine conversions without buying aftermarket conversion kits, there is a lot of welding/fabrication and engine management sorting. Even after you have it running, there is still a lot to sort out.

Might make more sense to sell the engine and take that money to put a WBX engine back in. Good luck. You are going to need some.

[UtahGOgear]

Thanks for the feedback!!! I really appreciate it!

Seems like a daunting task, and I might mess things up a few times but I look forward to digging into it and figuring things out! It's good to know other people have done this 50 deg. swap, I've come across a few but the info provided/recorded hasn't been the most resourceful.

I haven't really had a chance to look things over a ton, but right now my wife and I are both online students getting degrees so that we can be elementary school teachers. Not everyones cup of tea, but hey we enjoy it. So needless to say, life isn't so eventful jumping through hoops for the next year or so and the idea with this Vanagon is to enjoy it as much building it as we will after it's done so we don't lose our minds doing school work. I've got a lot to learn on this one, and it's bigger than any project I've taken on in the past- BUT when this sucker fires up and we're headed to the PNW or someplace outside of Utah it will all be worth it!!

I'll keep y'all posted and I really appreciate the feedback and commentary.

Joe

[levi]

Great!
I look forward to seeing pics of what transpires.
I love engine conversion builds.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40

[UtahGOgear]

Short update-
Got the wiring all un-tangled and laid out on an ikea countertop covered in some plastic... this way I can move it off the coffee table and into the office/garage if anyone comes over, in the mean time I'll be on the couch scratching my head for hours on end

The harness looks OKAY- except a few wires here and there that have seen some better days. The fuse box is what it is... but hopefully things will come out okay. I've decided to figure out the wiring first since for me this will most likely be the hardest part. After the harness is ready I'll order an aftermarket IC kit along with some odds and ends, pull the engine, clean clean clean, then put it back in knowing everything is secured and in place the correct way.

Been reading up a lot on this swap, there really aren't many 50 deg. swaps out there, but there are quite a few people who have put these 1.8T's into other projects, so here's to learning a crap ton in the next few days/weeks/months/ (hopefully not years) of building this thing! A few good 50 deg. swaps have really impressed me and are loaded with real great info! I'm going to try and do everything the best I can, but please feel free to chime in whenever with any suggestions along the way! The goal is to get it driving down the street to the hospital and back within the next month and a half as a DD... our baby is due Sep. 31st so it would be nice to have it on the road by then while time is still on my side, then we plan to work on it some more to get it up to par so that we can use it as a DD and hunting rig to hopefully fill some "over the counter" elk and deer tags in Wyoming, Montana, and Colorado. That will be in about 7 months from now when things are warming back up and our son will hopefully be big enough to camp out with us!

That's the plan anyway! Looking forward to some feedback, thanks again for all your comments and advise!!!

[tristessa]

Honestly, the wiring is probably the easiest part. Good info on that in the first couple pages of this thread, though I'd use the corrected wiring interface diagram found on page 11: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=378731

[UtahGOgear]