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lawn ninja
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006
Posts: 1022
Location: Round Rock, TX
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 Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2025 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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| schmedley wrote: |
I'm getting ready to do the rear bag set up. And I have questions?
1. Can you leave the torsion bars in or do you need to switch to some kind of free spinning spring plate. Will there be enough travel upwards from a low position. Its going to be pretty low.
2. Is a heavy crossbar enough reinforcement? Some people do struts down to the sub frame assembly. Is that needed? Or is it overkill? |
I've never done air on one of these cars, but here's my guess on it. The torsions are basically the spring in the car. So if you did run the torsions it would have to be done using no preload so it went all the way down and then the bags would have to work really hard and have a ton of air pressure to go up.
Personally, what I might try, is to grind the teeth off the inner torsions, with a lathe or something, so it's just a bar that fits in the housing. Then use a set screw through the center of the torsion housing that is slotted like an adjuster. That way it rotates freely on the inside but can still use the torsion as a guide to keep everything in place and you lock it on the inside. Then just attach the outsides as normal. So you can use normal spring plate, spring plate covers and whatnot. Does that make sense? It's makes sense in my head.
Otherwise you need to figure out a way to keep the plates located other than just the bushing, because that will result in a ton of deflection.
Just the way I'm thinking about it in my head. I've never done it before.
_________________
Jason
My 64 1500 S Notchback project here
My 58 sedan project here
My 63 Ghia here |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23576
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2025 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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| schmedley wrote: |
I'm getting ready to do the rear bag set up. And I have questions?
1. Can you leave the torsion bars in or do you need to switch to some kind of free spinning spring plate. Will there be enough travel upwards from a low position. Its going to be pretty low.
2. Is a heavy crossbar enough reinforcement? Some people do struts down to the sub frame assembly. Is that needed? Or is it overkill? |
You might want to look in the bug-super beetle section too, as the IRS on those cars IS similar to our cars as well. Keep in mind that our cars don't use the forks under the trans like a bug uses, but most everything else is similar. Our cars even use some of the same parts too. I hope this helps.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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schmedley
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2016
Posts: 94
Location: ewing, nj
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2025 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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Well im big into this rear irs slam.
So i got a couple of lowered (1 inch) spring plates made up. I got them with the set up so you can put the torsions back in. Useless because as i later found out there isnt enough travel with the torsion bars in.
The new plates where thesingle plate style. I took the plate caps from the 64 swing axle to make that work.
Then had to cut the top of theswi g arm mount in a straight line from the crook of the new plate to the top seem of the arm.
Then i cut straight up from behind the bottom stopto were the crook lands and in a straight line to just over the bump stop. This makes welding 2 patches with 3/16 plate easier. Getting a level cut or aslevel as possible makes it better too.
Thats as far as i got now. Next will be the cross bar support between the shock towers. |
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schmedley
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2016
Posts: 94
Location: ewing, nj
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2025 4:32 am Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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| Just saw the lawn ninja post, you dont think ill get away with no torsion bars huh. I am not following the set screw idea on your shaved torsion idea? Please elaborate if you can. |
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schmedley
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2016
Posts: 94
Location: ewing, nj
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2025 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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Here is the welded up shock tower, i just ordered the jbugs torsion delete kit and im going to use it to modify my current spring plate. |
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jaransonT3 
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2005
Posts: 1341
Location: Dearborn, MI
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2025 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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This is what I did for my IRS rear subframe airbag modifications....
And this is what someone mentioned about machining off the splines of the torsion bar so that Trailing arm can free pivot....
I just ground them off with an angle grinder.
_________________
Later,
John Jaranson
'66 Square (Sophy)
'67 Type 34 Karmann Ghia
'70-1 Fasty (Jane - the Lead Sled project)
'71 Westy (Sialia)
https://www.carartbyjohn.com
https://www.carartbyjohn.com/2026Invasion/ |
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schmedley
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2016
Posts: 94
Location: ewing, nj
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2025 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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| That would be easier than fabbing up the torsion delete. I was not going to put those diagnal reinforcements on mine, i have a heavy cross bar. Do you find them neccesary? |
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jaransonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2005
Posts: 1341
Location: Dearborn, MI
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 9:07 am Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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| schmedley wrote: |
| That would be easier than fabbing up the torsion delete. I was not going to put those diagnal reinforcements on mine, i have a heavy cross bar. Do you find them neccesary? |
I don't know if they are necessary or not. (My Lead Sled project is still not on the road). They were easy to fabricate and weld in and I liked that fact they should help reduce any twist of the crossmember that would be introduced by having the airbag mounts off-center/cantilevered off the crossmember.
_________________
Later,
John Jaranson
'66 Square (Sophy)
'67 Type 34 Karmann Ghia
'70-1 Fasty (Jane - the Lead Sled project)
'71 Westy (Sialia)
https://www.carartbyjohn.com
https://www.carartbyjohn.com/2026Invasion/ |
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schmedley
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2016
Posts: 94
Location: ewing, nj
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2025 10:51 am Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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| jaransonT3 wrote: |
| schmedley wrote: |
| That would be easier than fabbing up the torsion delete. I was not going to put those diagnal reinforcements on mine, i have a heavy cross bar. Do you find them neccesary? |
I don't know if they are necessary or not. (My Lead Sled project is still not on the road). They were easy to fabricate and weld in and I liked that fact they should help reduce any twist of the crossmember that would be introduced by having the airbag mounts off-center/cantilevered off the crossmember. |
Is the screw some kind of depth limiter? |
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schmedley
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2016
Posts: 94
Location: ewing, nj
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2025 11:01 am Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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| Also it looks like you chose the side with the longer splines for the inside? |
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jaransonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2005
Posts: 1341
Location: Dearborn, MI
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2025 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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Oops. That is actually the front torsion bar that we ground the splines off of. the bolt is the retainer screw for the torsion bar. For the rear, I just pulled the torsion bars completely. The airbag acts as the spring with the airride and the bars are not necessary for retention of the trailing arm.
Sorry for the confusion. In my defense, I did this way back in 2008....
_________________
Later,
John Jaranson
'66 Square (Sophy)
'67 Type 34 Karmann Ghia
'70-1 Fasty (Jane - the Lead Sled project)
'71 Westy (Sialia)
https://www.carartbyjohn.com
https://www.carartbyjohn.com/2026Invasion/ |
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schmedley
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2016
Posts: 94
Location: ewing, nj
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2025 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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| So you would run it using the bushings alone in the back? |
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jaransonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2005
Posts: 1341
Location: Dearborn, MI
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2025 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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| schmedley wrote: |
| So you would run it using the bushings alone in the back? |
That is my plan.
_________________
Later,
John Jaranson
'66 Square (Sophy)
'67 Type 34 Karmann Ghia
'70-1 Fasty (Jane - the Lead Sled project)
'71 Westy (Sialia)
https://www.carartbyjohn.com
https://www.carartbyjohn.com/2026Invasion/ |
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lawn ninja
Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2006
Posts: 1022
Location: Round Rock, TX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2025 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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| schmedley wrote: |
| Just saw the lawn ninja post, you dont think ill get away with no torsion bars huh. I am not following the set screw idea on your shaved torsion idea? Please elaborate if you can. |
I mean you might. Like I said I've never done it. But I would just cut the teeth off a set of torsions, so it all mounted up like factory but moved freely. The set screw idea is doing something like a standard style adjuster and just putting a grub screw in there with a large slot. That way you keep the shaved torsions pinned but the grub doesn't affect travel.
_________________
Jason
My 64 1500 S Notchback project here
My 58 sedan project here
My 63 Ghia here |
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jaransonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2005
Posts: 1341
Location: Dearborn, MI
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| Posted: Yesterday 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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FWIW, here are my 3 cents and why I simply removed the torsion bars...
The splined ends of the torsion bars are there to transfer rotational torque so the bar can act as a spring. That is really the only purpose of the bars. There are no set screws or concentric bolts like the front torsion bars. There are no circlips or snap rings either. There is nothing to prevent the torsion bar from moving side to side along the splined interface other than it being captured between the spring plate and subframe.
The rubber bushings and the spring plate and cover do all the work of locating the spring plate to the subframe and keeping it centered up and down and fore and aft. The torsion bar is a relatively long and slender bar. As beefy as it is, I suspect that if you slide the spring plate on without the bushings you could pull the plate for and aft a noticeable amount. I have not tried this , BTW.
Since the spring function of the torsion bar is being replaced by the airbags, I felt comfortable removing them completely and relying on the rubber bushings to control the position of that end of the spring plate.
I don't think there is any harm in removing the splines from one end of the torsion bar other than it potentially adding an additional interface to squeak or rattle, but I also see no benefit in leaving them in either.
Just my thoughts...
_________________
Later,
John Jaranson
'66 Square (Sophy)
'67 Type 34 Karmann Ghia
'70-1 Fasty (Jane - the Lead Sled project)
'71 Westy (Sialia)
https://www.carartbyjohn.com
https://www.carartbyjohn.com/2026Invasion/ |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23576
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Yesterday 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: 64 notch barn Find build |
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I agree with John on going without the rear bars. I would however go with new bushings in the housing. I think Brian Fye's wagon went barless in the rear with bags (his car was a swing axle car). Everyone needs to keep in mind he's using a T-1 front beam, which is easier to do than with a type 3 beam, which John is going to try and use. I hope this helps.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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