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James D
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2007
Posts: 236
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| xilly wrote: |
I guess on a 40HP engine it does not really matter, I really like the look and the sound anyway  |
It matters to me - I really need a stock-ish looking, free flowing, exhaust without going for a header/quiet pack style setup. |
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John Moxon 
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 14212
Location: Southampton U.K.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| James D wrote: |
| xilly wrote: |
| I guess on a 40HP engine it does not really matter, I really like the look and the sound anyway |
It matters to me - I really need a stock-ish looking, free flowing, exhaust without going for a header/quiet pack style setup. |
James,
This is an extract I reworked from the period tuning book "Souping The Volkswagen" by Dick Morgan at the time Stephane Lhonneux first produced his stainless steel version:
It doesn't give you that important extra HP rating but I'm guessing that under most circumstances it's not going to give you more than 2-3hp.
Is that worth the money?? You're the only one who can say, it's your money after all. 
_________________
John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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James D
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2007
Posts: 236
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:01 am Post subject: |
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| John Moxon wrote: |
It doesn't give you that important extra HP rating but I'm guessing that under most circumstances it's not going to give you more than 2-3hp.
Is that worth the money?? You're the only one who can say, it's your money after all. |
Thanks for that John! I need something that will work with about 60hp - don´t want to lose any power that I spent so much to gain! |
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EMPIFLAKE
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2007
Posts: 1493
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Has anyone got the WW abarth on their car yet? How does it sound look etc. |
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Victor Frisbee
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2005
Posts: 90
Location: Dover, PA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:03 pm Post subject: Anyone have one on their 36hp yet? |
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I have a 36hp Judson engine in my 1956 oval. This type of muffler is the last piece I'm looking for. 'The crowning jewel' so to speak.
More HP would be nice, but even without much hp gain this muffler should have a better sound as compared to pea-shooters and look better too.
I would appreciate it if someone would post pics and sound clips when they get one installed on a 36hp bug.
I'm going to have to talk to Santa... Again!
JD 8^)
Here's my current setup running in my 1956.
Link
_________________
CURRENTLY own:
1965 Vert - 1974 Porsche 914 V8 - 2011 VW Golf - 2013 Porsche Cayenne - 1962 mini cooper - 1974 BMW 2002
"Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better" - Émile Coué de Châtaigneraie |
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gimmesomeshelter
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004
Posts: 1466
Location: San Carlos, CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hello-
When you order the muffler, you might want to order an engine seal too.
Paul
_________________
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
Richard Feynman |
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Victor Frisbee
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2005
Posts: 90
Location: Dover, PA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| gimmesomeshelter wrote: |
Hello-
When you order the muffler, you might want to order an engine seal too.
Paul |
Indeed. LOL. The engine, as well as the rest of the car, are just getting pieced together at this point. When I do a restoration I get all of the repair work, mods, welding, etc. done first. I then disassemble the car and paint/powdercoat. That way there is less chance of damaging fresh paint.
_________________
CURRENTLY own:
1965 Vert - 1974 Porsche 914 V8 - 2011 VW Golf - 2013 Porsche Cayenne - 1962 mini cooper - 1974 BMW 2002
"Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better" - Émile Coué de Châtaigneraie |
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OilDropMan
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2004
Posts: 31
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:42 am Post subject: Judson oval with "Abarth" |
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Here is my Judson Oval with a WW Abarth. I'm pleased by the look and sound of the "Abarth":
Link
_________________
1955 Oval Ragtop
1956 Oval Convertible |
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Victor Frisbee
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2005
Posts: 90
Location: Dover, PA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:33 am Post subject: |
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VERY nice car you've got there! 
_________________
CURRENTLY own:
1965 Vert - 1974 Porsche 914 V8 - 2011 VW Golf - 2013 Porsche Cayenne - 1962 mini cooper - 1974 BMW 2002
"Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better" - Émile Coué de Châtaigneraie |
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EMPIFLAKE
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2007
Posts: 1493
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:58 am Post subject: Re: Judson oval with "Abarth" |
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| OilDropMan wrote: |
Here is my Judson Oval with a WW Abarth. I'm pleased by the look and sound of the "Abarth":
Link
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Ya that car is nice and the judson with the fram looks sweet!  Thanks for the video thats all I was waiting for to hear it! Now its time to call WW |
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gimmesomeshelter
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004
Posts: 1466
Location: San Carlos, CA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Hello-
I like the sound of this one.
Link
Can anyone comment which is more accurate?
Thanks,
Paul
_________________
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
Richard Feynman
Last edited by gimmesomeshelter on Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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EMPIFLAKE
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2007
Posts: 1493
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| Posted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I would like to know if anyones running the ww abarth and whats their opinion of it overall value for the$ |
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FrankRam
Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2007
Posts: 140
Location: Chesterfield, MO
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: |
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I really like the way the okrasa sounds at idle.
I wonder if it makes an everyday old 36 hp stock engine sound any different? |
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Karly
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2002
Posts: 641
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the videos everyone.. I ordered mine last week it arrived today..will be awhile till I get to hear it as the car is in the paint shop but looking forward to it!
Quality wise it's pretty nice and will add some feedback on fit, was a bit disappointed the black paint was already flicking off which I wasn't expecting considering how expensive it was. |
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AlteWagen
Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8702
Location: PNW
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John Moxon
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 14212
Location: Southampton U.K.
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77ducci
Samba Beer Head
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 408
Location: Gathering the Missing Parts
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| Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| If you have a decent stock muffler and the inclination it was not hard to make a stock muffler into a 4 tip at all. There are a lot of pictures and reference material in the various threads posted by John and others. Of course this has been discussed in the thread posted above. |
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Wolfgang1
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 139
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| derluftwagen wrote: |
| What internal differences are there between the abarth and stock? Is the only difference the extra set of pipes, all with no packing? |
Hi,
wanna give you some "think abouts" for 36hp mufflers.
This thread is made to improve! DO IT!
First to look what type of muffler you´ve got:
AFAIK there are three general types of 36hp mufflers:
- orig. VW muffler with logos stamped on each side
- aftermarket stock looking mufflers
- sport mufflers i.e Abarth (are there more made especially for the 36hp?)
From technical site both the aftermarket stock looking mufflers and the Abarths are inferior to the stock orig. VW muffler.
Why?
The orig. VW muffler is the only piece with internal equal length primaries! A very important and basic fact for performance.
There`s no internal restriction in the muffler, that means very low back pressure.
The "problem" are the stock tail pipes....so use TDE ones with a larger inner diameter or use just chrome pipes aka "cop caller".
Here`s a pic of a orig. VW muffler internals:
one chamber system with internal pipes for cyl. 2 and 4 to get equal length with cyl. 1 and 3:
internals of the aftermarket mufflers:
a three chamber system, cyl. 1 and 2 together also cyl. 3 and 4, joined with chamber 3 through the baffles.
why the baffles? It`s much more cheaper to build, reduces noise, but for sure higher back pressure, exhaust gases don`t want to go through little holes !
Remove the baffles, ok, but again remember at the unequal length of the pipes!
Aftermarket sale means high bucks at low cost, think about it!
No muffler engineer was asked.... just the salesman.... 
Thanks for the pic ducci77
internals of the Abarth:
same 3 chamber system, but improved baffles for lower back pressure, unequal pipe length 
Abarth only wins over orig. VW if you use stock tail pipes.
The supposed "sporty" sound of the Abarth are the result of the unequal primarys and the missing "glass pack" of the two stock tail pipes.
But you all know, at that time and today, people only look on what`s cooler or louder... 
Wanna do something useful, good looking and very reasonable for your 1200/1300 ccm 36hp? Search and buy a orig. VW muffler with TDE tailpipes or modify it with 4 pipes to a "Abarth".
just my 2cents
CheerioMissSofie
Wolfgang
P.S.: Some years ago i made a "test" with a 36hp engine.
You don`t feel any big differences between the orig. VW and the aftermarket muffler on a stock single carburated engine.
But when i changed to a Riechert dual carb setup with 28PCIs i was surprised!
With the aftermarket muffler the engine don`t wanted to rev up freely, got very hot (was very good for heating....ok )
obvious the backpressure, to much for a dual carb setup.
But with the orig. VW muffler with empty tail pipes i had a new engine! 
It was reving like a beast (as a 36hp can) and run very cool, also on long distances on the "Autobahn"
the test engine:
high speed shot:
_________________
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you take the wall with you. |
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Roadcow
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 1012
Location: Stockton, Ca. area
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Very informative, great post thank you.
I also like your signature line.
_________________
71 Westy Roadcow
67 Panel
63 Bug
66 Ghia Bonneville 2014
74 Ghia Vert
69 Bonneville Ghia 150 in Chico
69 Bonneville Ghia in Ireland
80 Cabby 2.1 16v
98 Passat |
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gimmesomeshelter
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004
Posts: 1466
Location: San Carlos, CA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Hello-
The TDE pipes sound very interesting, but unfortunately, I don't read German. Can you tell me more about them? It appears that they offer a stock look, but with better flow. Are they much louder than stock pipes? Are they worth the money, given that I'll need to ship them to the United States?
Thanks,
Paul
_________________
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
Richard Feynman |
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