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WesternMassRich
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2008
Posts: 299
Location: Pittsfield, MA
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 Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, this is great. I just took off my Right Rear Drum and brakes yesterday to replace the brake cylinder and noticed I need a new Backing plate. I cut/broke the rusted plate in half to get it off because it was junk.
So, now I have the wheel nut to deal with.
45mm socket with at least a 3/4 if not a 1" drive ?
Big cheater bar ?
Lock/chock the wheels (I have a gravel driveway too).
Heat it up with the torch too ?
This is good info you guys gave out and right on time too.
Rich
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1987 Synchro, AC, PS, 5 Speed, 7 Pass., 2.1 Digifant. "The Kaiser" |
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dhermanesq
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2006
Posts: 160
Location: MKEWI
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
If the van is in any part of the corrosive belt,( this could be anywhere from NY. to Fla., the whole midwest, the southern caost, the west coast along the ocean, and the PNW , a half inch impact CP, Snap On, IR, Or whatever will be hammering for some time prior tothat nut coming off on it's own--without some persuasion with a torch.
I was talking to my farmer buddy and mentioned this fiasco without any focused heat.
He mentioned right off the top of his head " they might as well flick their Bik on that rusted up hub as to be putiing a propane torch on it--they'll get about the same amount of heat"
I laughed and agreed.
Now here's the way we figured out without any heat, no compressor, no impact, to get it off the Vanagon handy andy, spend no money on anything extra way.
You will need the socket.
You will need a breaker bar.
You will need a fence post--maybe 8-10 ft long.
No jack, no jack stand--nothing superficial.
OK--get the socket on the hub nut.
Attach the breaker bar--or get the socket on the bar first if you'd like, then get it on the nut--as close to the ground as possible--slip the fence post on the breaker bar.
Now for the driver's side nut, back up to just get the fence post touching the ground , and hammer the throttle.
The wheel & axle will break the
nut loose if it's gonna come loose.
Maybe wire wheel & oil up the threads a bit first.
On the passenger side you'll have to drive forward to get it to spin correctly.
This is the recommended farmer way of getting the job done without spending more than you have to, or if you don't want to drive down to the truck shop & have them do it with their actual mechanic related type tools.
To the guy that wants to know what to buy for tools---
A small torch set( just think--you can weld, solder, silver solder, cut, actually work on your exhaust system, and break al kinds of frozen nuts & bolts loose wherever, whenever you want.
Then a socket for the hub nut, and then a breaker bar with a rachet attachment on the end.
You'd be done with this job already if you had these tools--in record time. |
This is exactly how I do it. I have a 3/4" breaker bar, and a 7 foot piece of metal fence post. Put it on get in position, drive. Loose. Done. Next. I learned this from spending the days of my youth working on a farm near Appleton. They had some old JI Cases. THOSE bolts get stuck. Our technique works EVERY time. Word up TK. |
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jandrewthompson
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2008
Posts: 108
Location: Bloomington, IL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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So, are you guys all yanking posts from the same fence or what??? 
Just thought I'd share that my craftsman 1/2 inch breaker bar snapped in two like a damp pretzel. Was trying to remove rear drivers axle nut with a 4' pipe this afternoon. I'm going to try my brother's impact wrench tonight to see how it goes...
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'67 Zenith Blue Beetle |
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T3 Pilot
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 1509
Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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| Posted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Just went through this excersise to remove the rear axle nuts.
Used all the tips and advice gleaned from the Samba regarding the usual suspects, heat, penetrating oil, breaker bar. Broke one bar, then happened upon a previously enjoyed 3/4 in impact wrench while I was at the tool store replacing my broken 3 ft breaker bar. I already own an el cheaplo 1/2 impact gun, but it did not budge these nuts.
The bar was rated for 800 foot pounds and the impact wrench claims to be able to deliver 1200. The gun was inexpensive, so I used the money saved to upgrade my air compressors outlet hose to 1/2 and installed high flow coupling fittings on the gun and hose.
15 Mississippis for the drivers side and about 25 for the PS.
The threads were undamaged, although I had messed up one axle nut while trying to remove it previously with the breaker Bar.
Now I figure I have enough torque power to undo any bolt on the Van. So anyway, best advice from where I sit is to go find a shop with the correct 3/4 gun and socket, or if you like tools like I do, just pick up a good basic impact wrench and upgrade your tank supply line.
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1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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warmblood58
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| My experience today . . . actually had the socket 46mm (removes fuel sender nut on Mercede 300SD diesel - nice to repurpose this huge socket. Broke two half inch breakers, returned them to Harbor Freight and . . they took them back and gave me two new ones plus I picked up a 3/4 inch breaker. The driver side loosened first and yes, I heated and used the wax technique. The passenger side took repeated heating cycles and more wax. I am two hundred pounds and was standing carefully on a four foot pipe extension slid over my breaker and it finally broke loose . . . . I am guessing that they have not been off for years and were possibly installed with a impact gun - everything looked quite dry which of course did not help. Success! |
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Abscate 
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 24127
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:24 am Post subject: |
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A lot of people aren't careful to apply pure torque when they use a breaker bar. You shouldn't be lifting the car, you want to be pushing the car into the ground with your loosening twist. Pick the right quadrant to have your breaker bar positioned...front on driver side, rear on passenger side (LHd)
Time is your friend with penetrating oil too. Start applying it daily one week before you intend to tackle this job. ATF and acetone mixed 50-50 is the best penetrant out there.
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πΊπΈ πΊπΈ πΊπΈ πΊπΈ πΊπΈ πΊπΈ πΊπΈ π π π |
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msinabottle
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2005
Posts: 3492
Location: Denver Area, Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: A New Type of Tool Arrives! |
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I've been casting about for my own Semi-sized Torque Wrench, recalling a a certain tool that I have rented with great success in the past...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...p;start=12
But... if I could not get that... a wise friend has just pointed me toward THIS from Amazon!
http://www.amazon.com/Saving-Wrench-Torque-Multiplier-Trailer/dp/B00H99HXFA#productDetails
and also... this:
http://tinyurl.com/mvbpv2s
Which don't give the maximum torque.
You'd have to have the right size socket (which I do, CIP sells it), and a way to wedge it since it couldn't grab onto the rim of a semi tire. Said wise friend suggests a bar with a 'claw' fitting, much like the 'banjo' one uses to keep the hub from spinning when the rim's off and the van's on jackstands.
What do you vanagonoscenti think? And if anybody thinks I work for Amazon, they don't know me very well. I'm all in with the heat and penetrant, I got away with a propane torch both times.
Best!
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'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence." |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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I think the Bud wheel torque amplifier is a neat idea, but as you mentioned you don't have the edge of the inner wheel hub to use as an anchor.
I'be got to say I cringe at the caveman breaker bar & the 7 foot pole technique.
We're into the new millennium, but yet folks are still dragging their fence post out of their cave.
There are more torque amplification devises available out there.
I do know that, I've used them myself to torque down Cummings diesel heads to 550 foot pounds used in conjunction with my torque wrench to get the right numbers.
The issue primarily is locating such a tool, and the cost.
For this job nothing responds quite like a
3/4, or1" impact.
Hands down the best deal,and the safest way to get that axle nut removed & back on.
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T.K. |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 3:42 am Post subject: |
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Is this extension really necessary?
I am about to order a 46mm socket for my 3/4" breaker bar and wonder if I should also order an extension?
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www.edwardpowell.com |
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Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 8:10 am Post subject: Re: how do I remove the rear axle nut? |
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Deep socket, or the short extension, _ a short socket, take your pick.
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T.K. |
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61Scout
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2011
Posts: 1297
Location: Shoreline/Yakima WA
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 8:45 am Post subject: Re: how do I remove the rear axle nut? |
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Good tips! Thanks!
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www.edwardpowell.com |
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2660
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 8:52 am Post subject: Re: how do I remove the rear axle nut? |
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When you order the 46mm socket, ensure it's a six-point one, not a 12-pointer.
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:08 am Post subject: Re: how do I remove the rear axle nut? |
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| fxr wrote: |
| When you order the 46mm socket, ensure it's a six-point one, not a 12-pointer. |
Definitely!
I am also thinking to get as tough a quality as possible... not sure what that would be.... one for an impact wrench?
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www.edwardpowell.com |
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T3 Pilot
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 1509
Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:21 am Post subject: Re: how do I remove the rear axle nut? |
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If your rear axle nuts have not been off in recent memory, then you should consider using impact tools for removal, like this:
http://www.van-cafe.com/46mm-axle-nut-tool
Or just drive the van to a garage that has the appropriate air impact tools and by them a coffee to loosen the nuts and clean the threads.
One person on the bar providing some torque, and you on a 5lb. Sledge to hit the tool.
You will still need a 6 point 46mm socket for the tightening process.
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1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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blackglasspirate
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2006
Posts: 1632
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| epowell wrote: |
Is this extension really necessary?
I am about to order a 46mm socket for my 3/4" breaker bar and wonder if I should also order an extension? |
I used a similar breaker bar to the one pictured (it was a cheapo from harbor freight) without an extension, though an extension would be nice to clear the fender.
I also used a 6' pipe from Home depot on top of the breaker bar. This past time when I was re-installing the nut I actually snapped the end of the breaker bar where the socket connects. Luckily it was tight enough so now I just have to get a new bar for next time!
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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 10255
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| blackglasspirate wrote: |
| ...(it was a cheapo from harbor freight)... when I was re-installing the nut I actually snapped the end of the breaker bar where the socket connects... now I just have to get a new bar for next time! |
Lifetime guarantee on those HF breaker bars. No hassles - they didn't even ask how I managed to break two of them. |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 17201
Location: Brookeville, MD
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: how do I remove the rear axle nut? |
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| dobryan wrote: |
Yep, six foot piece of fence post for me too. And if the nut is too stuck I will take a dremel cut off wheel and slice it across the nut just to the point of the threads then take a chisel and snap the nut at the slice. That always works, but of course you better have a replacement nut and not bugger the threads...  |
I like this approach > give it a reasonable and serious try with heavy duty tools and effort. but if that doesn't work, but cut the thing off...
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www.edwardpowell.com |
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sanchius
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2007
Posts: 1578
Location: IN
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| Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="epowell"]
| pete000 wrote: |
Is this extension really necessary?
I am about to order a 46mm socket for my 3/4" breaker bar and wonder if I should also order an extension? |
While I didn't need an extension for this job using a short 3/4" 46mm socket, I recall the range of motion being limited.
An extension would increase your flexibility and since it's your money, I recommend getting one or, as TK says, a deep socket.
Ever since we added the 4' Snappy 3/4" torque wrench/breaker bar to the tool bag, these multi-hundred ft/lb axle nuts and crank bolts simply haven't been a problem.
With the recent intermountain oil&gas boom cooling down, I regularly see these on craigslist around here for $200-$300
Full story: The recovery: '91 Audi 200 20vtqa CV replacement in the mountains during winter
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