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TequilaSunSet
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2012
Posts: 2109
Location: Philippines
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 Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Chuey wrote: |
| TequilaSunSet wrote: |
The design makes me puke, they are so UGLY!
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.....And, the Ford is less ugly? In my opinion, both would not be bought for their looks and both look equal on my aesthetic scale.
The Eurovan is a handsome vehicle. The Vanagon --- I can't consider myself objective, but me likey!
Chuey |
Vanagon is a babe magnet!
Link
_________________
Don't harsh my mellow...
1985 Hightower Vanagon 1.8T- Gone
1972 Panel Bus- Gone
1967 Bug- Gone
1964 Euro Sunroof Bug- Gone
1969/72/63 Sunroof Bug- Gone
1975 Brazilian Bug in the Philippines 🇵🇭- New to me |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10070
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Can you post a link to the 201 cubic feet specification? I've seen two lengths listed for Eurovans in official dimensioned drawings. One shows a length of 5107mm and the other shows a length of 4789. In my model/cals I used the 4789 Euro length (9 inches longer than a vanagon) posted in the pics in this thread. If the interior volume is listed as the same as a vanagon, I imagine the calculation must come from the longer 5107mm version (21" longer than a vanagon). My calcs were also based on all the seats being removed from either vehicle.
_________________
I am a high-functioning autistic into VW diesels and Vanagons along with other things that are unrelated to this site. |
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singler3360
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 1191
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
Can you post a link to the 201 cubic feet specification? I've seen two lengths listed for Eurovans in official dimensioned drawings. One shows a length of 5107mm and the other shows a length of 4789. In my model/cals I used the 4789 Euro length (9 inches longer than a vanagon) posted in the pics in this thread. If the interior volume is listed as the same as a vanagon, I imagine the calculation must come from the longer 5107mm version (21" longer than a vanagon). My calcs were also based on all the seats being removed from either vehicle. |
Come to think of it, my friend with the EVC Winnebago said it is longer than the tintop chassis. Not sure how the T4 weekender chassis compares. Sounds like two calculations are in order to compare. |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10070
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| singler3360 wrote: |
| Sounds like two calculations are in order to compare. |
Not for me.  I want the shorter overall length of the vanagon to park more easily, coupled with the longer roof of the vanagon in order to have the added space in the high top.
_________________
I am a high-functioning autistic into VW diesels and Vanagons along with other things that are unrelated to this site. |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10070
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:00 am Post subject: |
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I love the Vajazzle video. Very funny.
_________________
I am a high-functioning autistic into VW diesels and Vanagons along with other things that are unrelated to this site. |
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vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3635
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| vela123321 wrote: |
I think that's the problem. Europeans tend to head to the countryside every weekend. In summer, the people north tend to drive south. There are so many smaller camper type vehicles that people enjoy. Here in the US people tend to want a house on wheels. I can't believe how big these things can get. I also don't get driving to some campsite, setting up, and then sit inside your 5th wheel for a few days. I think we should each be able to choose our hobbies and interests; I'm just saying that the huge American camper isn't for me.
My son always likes the comments he hears as people walk by the Vanagon. I must say it gets a lot of comments. Perhaps the market for a smaller style camper is bigger than I assume, but probably not at 80,000 Euros! |
Boy I agree! Also add that a lot of Europeans live in apartments, have convenient public transportation and you now you have a situation where:
-You do not need to drive your vehicle everyday
-A smaller place to park it
-Higher fuel costs and ..
-no need to paint the house or cut grass on the weekend
Result = bigger market for a small, yet convenient get-away vehicle.
_________________
John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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singler3360
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 1191
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| vanagonjr wrote: |
Boy I agree! Also add that a lot of Europeans live in apartments, have convenient public transportation and you now you have a situation where:
-You do not need to drive your vehicle everyday
-A smaller place to park it
-Higher fuel costs and ..
-no need to paint the house or cut grass on the weekend
Result = bigger market for a small, yet convenient get-away vehicle. |
Our Potsdam friend's situation exactly. It works for them very well. They live in a top floor apartment on the edge of Sanssoucci Park and within walking/biking distance of everything they need. No need for a daily driver of any kind even with three young kids. Very different from our infrastructure here (generalizing, I know). |
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travelteam
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2012
Posts: 50
Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:00 am Post subject: |
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There still isn't a comparable replacement for the Vanagon in the US as far as I am concerned. The Transit is massive. The Transit Connect is minuscule. Ford actually does offer a mid-sized van that would fill the niche nicely (google "ford transit custom" or "ford tourneo"), but it is not offered in the US.
Until some maker fills the mid-sized niche, I don't see there being anything worth considering. I don't want a giant commercial van in my driveway any more than I want a ground-scraping mini "van".
Here are some volume stats I pulled for fun:
Transit Connect: 129 cu. ft.
Transit Custom: 210.1 cu. ft.
Transit: 246.7-487.3 cu. ft. 
I think it would be great to see some properly proportioned mid-sized vans in the US to at least keep things interesting (renderings of the T6 look great to me)... but until then, viva Vanagon!! |
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8471
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| Can you post a link to the 201 cubic feet specification? I've seen two lengths listed for Eurovans in official dimensioned drawings. One shows a length of 5107mm and the other shows a length of 4789. In my model/cals I used the 4789 Euro length (9 inches longer than a vanagon) posted in the pics in this thread. If the interior volume is listed as the same as a vanagon, I imagine the calculation must come from the longer 5107mm version (21" longer than a vanagon). My calcs were also based on all the seats being removed from either vehicle. |
There are two sources at this link: http://a2resource.com/brochures/1993/
There were two lengths for the T4. The passenger vans, including pop-top MV, were on the standard 115" wheelbase, which is what the 201 cubic feet of cargo volume is based on; the Winnebago full-camper vans were on the extended length 131" wheelbase.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/97eurovanwinnebago.php
_________________
~Kamz 
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8471
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| vanagonjr wrote: |
| The Chicken tax is not preventing VW, or anyone else, form importing passenger vans or campers. It did not stop VW after 1963 from selling these, but it did effectively stop cargo van and pick-up variations. |
Quite right, but importation costs in general are a big factor for European manufacturers. VW not only has to pay importation fees (which buyers offset with paying higher prices), but they also have to pay megabucks to get the engines and such to pass muster for the NA market. It's all a big racket, to some degree.
If VW is selling the base model T5 California in Europe for a base price of €50,000-something, there's no way they're going to be selling it here for the equivalent price... or, worse, at a loss. There's a reason VW partnered with Chrysler to build the Routan instead of just bringing the Sharan or T5 here. 
| foodeater wrote: |
| The regulations are different for the Euro-zone and North American market, its hard to say that one is tougher, or better, but they are different. |
Ironically, there was talk in the past year of the EU and NA coming together to create one set of standards for both car-buying regions. It would be great for both consumers and manufacturers if they actually accomplished this, but I'm not holding my breath. 
_________________
~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10070
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Thanks. To be clear, they are only counting the space from behind the front seats to the back hatch and in the vanagon they are not including the storage area under the rear seat. In the Eurovan, the middle and rear seats are removed so the space under the rear seat is included.
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I am a high-functioning autistic into VW diesels and Vanagons along with other things that are unrelated to this site. |
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foodeater
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2007
Posts: 1318
Location: Newburgh, NY
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| vanagonjr wrote: |
| The Chicken tax is not preventing VW, or anyone else, form importing passenger vans or campers. It did not stop VW after 1963 from selling these, but it did effectively stop cargo van and pick-up variations. |
Quite right, but importation costs in general are a big factor for European manufacturers. VW not only has to pay importation fees (which buyers offset with paying higher prices), but they also have to pay megabucks to get the engines and such to pass muster for the NA market. It's all a big racket, to some degree.
If VW is selling the base model T5 California in Europe for a base price of €50,000-something, there's no way they're going to be selling it here for the equivalent price... or, worse, at a loss. There's a reason VW partnered with Chrysler to build the Routan instead of just bringing the Sharan or T5 here.
| foodeater wrote: |
| The regulations are different for the Euro-zone and North American market, its hard to say that one is tougher, or better, but they are different. |
Ironically, there was talk in the past year of the EU and NA coming together to create one set of standards for both car-buying regions. It would be great for both consumers and manufacturers if they actually accomplished this, but I'm not holding my breath. |
It would be fantastic if the regulations lined up more within in the two zones, but I can't imagine it will ever happen. I believe that there are still differences between the countries of North America, I think Canada, and the US still have different bumper regulations, but they are close enough.
_________________
89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP |
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IrideWheelies
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2009
Posts: 386
Location: Olympia, WA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| travelteam wrote: |
There still isn't a comparable replacement for the Vanagon in the US as far as I am concerned. The Transit is massive. The Transit Connect is minuscule. Ford actually does offer a mid-sized van that would fill the niche nicely (google "ford transit custom" or "ford tourneo"), but it is not offered in the US.
Until some maker fills the mid-sized niche, I don't see there being anything worth considering. I don't want a giant commercial van in my driveway any more than I want a ground-scraping mini "van".
Here are some volume stats I pulled for fun:
Transit Connect: 129 cu. ft.
Transit Custom: 210.1 cu. ft.
Transit: 246.7-487.3 cu. ft.
I think it would be great to see some properly proportioned mid-sized vans in the US to at least keep things interesting (renderings of the T6 look great to me)... but until then, viva Vanagon!! |
I don't know why GM kept these such a secret but, I'll let y'all know about it. Chevy has been offering a factory AWD full size van for like 10 years. I don't know why the Transit gets all the attention. The Chevy vans are sweet. I decided to replace my Syncro with something new and this was the closest replacement I could find. It's AWD and has a rear locker. It has a sliding door. It gets better mileage than my vanagon. I would have happily bought a new VW but this fits my needs. Too bad 2014 was the last year of production. All the 1/2 ton vans are gone to make room for the new small cargo vans.
from this
to this
now this
and after my syncro is sold I'll do this
_________________
89' Dove Blue Syncro Hightop |
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TequilaSunSet
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2012
Posts: 2109
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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I'm laughing at myself... I started this thread with the "What if?" and I now find myself liking my Vanagon even more now... going to go give my van a hug now 
_________________
Don't harsh my mellow...
1985 Hightower Vanagon 1.8T- Gone
1972 Panel Bus- Gone
1967 Bug- Gone
1964 Euro Sunroof Bug- Gone
1969/72/63 Sunroof Bug- Gone
1975 Brazilian Bug in the Philippines 🇵🇭- New to me |
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vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3635
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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tjet
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3725
Location: Az
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| IrideWheelies wrote: |
and after my syncro is sold I'll do this
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I'd get that if it looked more like this with a TDI in the back...
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Rodknock
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 516
Location: Boulder CO
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| No pop-top |
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tjet
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3725
Location: Az
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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TequilaSunSet
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2012
Posts: 2109
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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^^Reminds me of the old econoline... loved those
_________________
Don't harsh my mellow...
1985 Hightower Vanagon 1.8T- Gone
1972 Panel Bus- Gone
1967 Bug- Gone
1964 Euro Sunroof Bug- Gone
1969/72/63 Sunroof Bug- Gone
1975 Brazilian Bug in the Philippines 🇵🇭- New to me |
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Rodknock
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 516
Location: Boulder CO
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Here's and up-and-coming company with some interesting pop-top conversions. Let's hope they do one of these newer vans, especially a 4wd van. Nice alternative to Sportsmobile and other existing conversions...
http://www.ursaminorvehicles.com/camper_main.htm |
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