Ignition switch repair?

[incynr8]

Ok, I have
A good battery
good starter
good soleniod
clean connections at start switch
6.3 V on the guage
turn starter switch get 3-4V at soleniod

Is that enough to run the relay kit or is the starter switch suspect, I SOMETIMES get starts.

If the switch is suspect, it is a 1959 screw term and riveted to the body, any internal repair attemtp I can make?

My wires are very clean.

AL
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[Eric&Barb]

Hi Al,
Check voltage at the battery posts and then use that amount for referance as you check for what voltage at EACH connection going from battery to ignition switch and back to the starter solinoid.
Good idea to replace each battery cable and the tranny to body grounding cable to see if that will do the trick.
Have you checked out the headlight rebuild article we helped to write up in the type2.com archives? Also solder the clips in each slot of the post-1960 fuse box together, and soldering the pre-1961 fuse box riveted connections helps a lot!
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[npelton]

nice

[incynr8]

Hmm it might be the tranny grounding cable, but the others look nicer than my subaru outside. It's just odd I sometimes get starts and sometimes do not. I am trying a 6v ford relay once I find one around town today.
Thanks for the fuse box tips, I had read those in the archives and will look to tighten them up as well.
Al
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..........
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[spiderjames]

[incynr8]

that's tonights testing, the wire to starter motor and then soleniod from the battery feed cable(which is new) for reliabilty testing.

The unit is a new Bosch starter with new soleniod. I do believe the condition is the overal total resistance of the wiring, but the ignition switch is suspect internally as well. Since it is a brass rivet, I was particualrly asking if there is a way to open them up and clean them or tighten the interal connections.

So far I get 5.8-6.3 volts at the soleniod at terminal 30. At the ignition wire trigger point, I get about 3.8 when the key is turned. I hope that would be enough to fire a 6v relay of some point. I am doing this relay regardless as it makes sense, just trying to keep my OG ignition if I can.

Seems like I have alot of little improvements to do..

Thanks for the help!
AL
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..........
Do it right, or don't bother.

[Big Bill]

incynr8, I too had the problems you are talking about. I did all the repairs you tried plus the starter bushing and a WW hard start reley and still would get a no start sometimes. I bought a good used ignition switch in the samba classifieds, and had Gaberial(sp?) rekey it to my OG key code, has been flawless since then. I belive he said he cleaned up the contacts, but I wouldnt know how to open up the switch myself hope this helps. Bill

[Mr. Loaf]

Your problem is your ignition switch. Maybe you could send it off to Gabriel if you can not figure out how to open it up. Otherwise, find one here on the SAMBA!
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[incynr8]

they have to come apart then by drilling that center brass rivet and popping the 'tabs' Only way I can see getting to the cyl as well. He had to get into there to retumble it somehow. I see no way from the 'front' or key side.

Has anyone opened one of these up?

I ordered the ww relay, it makes sense to use one, but I really want to keep my original ignition switch.

Thanks,
AL
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[ToolBox]

[splitpile]

[incynr8]

SO dont drill the center rivet out?
Thanks.
I am going to try and run contact cleaner through it first.
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..........
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[incynr8]

Alot of the problem I think is the Bosch starter, I have been reading they often need almost 7 volts to hit the soleniod?
I agree it should WORK without a relay.
Seems to me I have to check the headlight switch and possibly open it and do the internal solder gig, same with fuse box, and then clean/repair my ignition switch.
The relay is not an original implementation, but does reduce alot of wire resistance in the path.
The wiring is so nice it looks new, but beside the battery cable to starter, I do not believe it is.

The voltage drop measured was at the starter soleniod, I had 6 available, and then at the soleniod trigger I had only 3.8 when you would turn the key, so the resistance could be:

At headlight switch
At fuse box
at starter switch

I have alot more to empirically check

The annoying thing is, it SOMETIMES starts!

Al
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[crofty]

Can't you wire the hot lead directly to the ignition switch then to the light switch? I saw a tech article on that years ago...
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Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.

[incynr8]

Yes you could.

I will chase the resistance dragon and post again. I really think it's the ignition switch internally, as it was fine for a bit ,then got crappy. It still sometimes fires right up, then doesn't then does, then doesn't. Not much is being manipulated in the meantime.
_________________
..........
Do it right, or don't bother.

[spiderjames]

[Hella Bro]

Have you checked your starter bushing?

[Eric&Barb]

Hi Volks,
While the starter relay will often fix the starting problem. It will not remove resistance in the wiring connections that occurs due to corrosion, loose connections, bad battery cables, etc... This resistance keeps your lights, signals, horn, wipers, etc., dimmer, less loud, slower working, etc....
With the all the 40+ year old wiring systems in all our VWs and many friends we have helped with, been able to get voltage drop down to 1/10 of a volt when checked at the taillights and solinoid.
In the decades we have been working on VWs, have only seen one that needed the relay, and that due to the solinoid wire was partly fried by a DPO.
Unfortunately if there are no other causes of resistance in the wiring and the ignition switch is going. The ignition switch will just keep going bad from wearing out and finally will not get the starter working any more even with the relay.
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[Stanagon]

I just had Gabriel replace the electrical part of my ignition switch. $25 and very quick turn around. Mine had gotten fried and was actually smoking.

Gab said he could smell it before he opened the package...
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www.stanagon.com


My '61 Mango bus thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=110367
My '64 vert thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=386344
My '71 squareback thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=637709

[spiderjames]