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RockStock
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Joined: November 26, 2004
Posts: 4228
Location: England
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 Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: Barndoor Factory Spotwelds (Exterior Bodywork) |
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what do people know about them?
how obvious were they when new? or weren't they?
for example - rear arch - is this typical of og?
would like to see more pics, if anyone has any....
my bodyman is gonna be made up!
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Scotty
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Joined: July 02, 2003
Posts: 1553
Location: Northampton - Uk
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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I suspect that the spot welds weren't visible from new, but once you add rust and the seam swells it obviously pulls the spot welds.
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Anchovy
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Joined: August 05, 2000
Posts: 2991
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Scotty wrote: |
| I suspect that the spot welds weren't visible from new, but once you add rust and the seam swells it obviously pulls the spot welds. |
I think the rust shows them more, but that they were slightly visible from new. The spot welds also become more pronounced when the body is bead blasted too hard from the inside. From the factory you could probably see traces of the spot welds, but nothing like in the photo above. The factory panels were far from perfect. On original paint buses you can often see a small divet or wave beneath the engine vents on the leading edge. This artifact looks like stress in the panel for the stamping process. The spot weld reminants and the divet are nearly always lost when the panels are blocked straight during a restoration. |
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EverettB 
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RockStock
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Joined: November 26, 2004
Posts: 4228
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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thanks all
| EverettB wrote: |
Not visible:
Maybe if my Truck was shiny. |
how come that curve can be seen though? you know, where the spot welds 'are'?
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Anchovy
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Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
Not visible:
Maybe if my Truck was shiny. |
Can you feel them? It looks like a different pattern of patina along the spot welds which would make me think that they are there. |
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EverettB
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BUCIOBATISTI
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Joined: April 17, 2002
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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The spot weld divets on the doglegs on my '53 Panel are very very visible and I love how they look like that. I have seen a few other Barndoors that looked much the same in the dogleg area.
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RockStock
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Joined: November 26, 2004
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Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| BUCIOBATISTI wrote: |
| The spot weld divets on the doglegs on my '53 Panel are very very visible and I love how they look like that. I have seen a few other Barndoors that looked much the same in the dogleg area. |
brendan, can you throw up a couple of pictures?
thanks
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BUCIOBATISTI
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Joined: April 17, 2002
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| RockStock wrote: |
| BUCIOBATISTI wrote: |
| The spot weld divets on the doglegs on my '53 Panel are very very visible and I love how they look like that. I have seen a few other Barndoors that looked much the same in the dogleg area. |
brendan, can you throw up a couple of pictures?
thanks |
Not a very good example but I think you can clearly see them in this pic. It is the middle of the night over here and my camera and computer are not communicating these days for some reason...
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[email protected]
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Joined: September 22, 2002
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| I think when new they were not really visable. As time went buy and all the rain,mud, salt ect. got jamed up under the seems pulled apart some pulling on the welds. |
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campingbox
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Joined: November 14, 2000
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Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| I think when new they were not really visable. As time went buy and all the rain,mud, salt ect. got jamed up under the seems pulled apart some pulling on the welds. |
I agree 100%. |
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RockStock
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Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Scotty wrote: |
| I suspect that the spot welds weren't visible from new, but once you add rust and the seam swells it obviously pulls the spot welds. |
right, first reply   
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BUCIOBATISTI
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| I think when new they were not really visable. As time went buy and all the rain,mud, salt ect. got jamed up under the seems pulled apart some pulling on the welds. |
I'm not so sure myself. I remember seeing a really low mile original Barndoor Fire Kombi at Kelley Park many years ago and both doglegs had huge divets visible as clear as day. It was a low mile, unabused Bus and although it had been repainted they never did any body work to hide those body flaws.
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Anchovy
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| BUCIOBATISTI wrote: |
| The spot weld divets on the doglegs on my '53 Panel are very very visible and I love how they look like that. |
Freak!
Now where are my 29 part number lug nuts? I need to fondle them a bit. |
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Scotty
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Joined: July 02, 2003
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Location: Northampton - Uk
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| BUCIOBATISTI wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| I think when new they were not really visable. As time went buy and all the rain,mud, salt ect. got jamed up under the seems pulled apart some pulling on the welds. |
I'm not so sure myself. I remember seeing a really low mile original Barndoor Fire Kombi at Kelley Park many years ago and both doglegs had huge divets visible as clear as day. It was a low mile, unabused Bus and although it had been repainted they never did any body work to hide those body flaws. |
Did you cut the wheel arch apart and have a look at the seam where the spot welds were? How could you tell if it was rusty in that seam otherwise?
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campingbox
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Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| BUCIOBATISTI wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| I think when new they were not really visable. As time went buy and all the rain,mud, salt ect. got jamed up under the seems pulled apart some pulling on the welds. |
I'm not so sure myself. I remember seeing a really low mile original Barndoor Fire Kombi at Kelley Park many years ago and both doglegs had huge divets visible as clear as day. It was a low mile, unabused Bus and although it had been repainted they never did any body work to hide those body flaws. |
Are you talking about divets on the exterior bodywork or inside the jamb?
I think divets are acceptable along the bottom of the nose and rockers.....but would expect that divets along the battery trays and wheel wells to be taken care of with lead prior to it's first paint. |
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BUCIOBATISTI
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Joined: April 17, 2002
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Location: San Diego, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| campingbox wrote: |
| BUCIOBATISTI wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
| I think when new they were not really visable. As time went buy and all the rain,mud, salt ect. got jamed up under the seems pulled apart some pulling on the welds. |
I'm not so sure myself. I remember seeing a really low mile original Barndoor Fire Kombi at Kelley Park many years ago and both doglegs had huge divets visible as clear as day. It was a low mile, unabused Bus and although it had been repainted they never did any body work to hide those body flaws. |
Are you talking about divets on the exterior bodywork or inside the jamb?
I think divets are acceptable along the bottom of the nose and rockers.....but would expect that divets along the battery trays and wheel wells to be taken care of with lead prior to it's first paint. |
I'm talking about on the visible exterior surfaces, particularly on the doglegs. I have seen more than a few original paint and otherwise Barndoors that have heavy dimpling and divets in body work all over them, seemingly more pronounced than on later model Buses.
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Turbo Bug
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Joined: August 20, 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Scotty wrote: |
| I suspect that the spot welds weren't visible from new, but once you add rust and the seam swells it obviously pulls the spot welds. |
Scotty is 100% right here. This is what happens with age and years of body/panel flex. I like to view it as lovely bit of genuine patina.
There are some pictures of body assembly at Wolfsburg where you see the guys spot weld this area then flat over the arch panel in the spot welded are with a large (about 10 inch) sander. They pretty much get the panel flat, but there are always some minor imperfections. Bear in mind that we are talking about a mass production vehicle here and not a coachbuilt. |
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j.pickens
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Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:13 am Post subject: |
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I'd bet those dimples are stress related.
That low mileage fire bus Brendan mentioned might well have driven alot of those low miles over cobblestone streets. That will shake the bejesus out of the bus.
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