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olivhed
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2002
Posts: 95
Location: NE Ohio
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hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10804
Location: the past
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 Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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none of the parts you ordered from cip1 are gonna be correct or work on your bus. what's your vin number?
the one you took a pic of (in the gallery) is the bushing for the long shift rod. it clips into the frame crossmember. here is a pic of an NOS one in the gallery. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=267099 nobody reproduces them, and as far as i know, they are very hard to find NOS. also, if you look at your bus, there is no tube that the long shift rod goes into. the long rod also has no holes drilled in it for any bushings. so the bushings you ordered for the long rod are useless to you. not sure when the tube for the shift rod started, but i know my 2/56 standard does not have one, just the exposed shift rod.
you also will need an "M" shaped leaf spring for the front shift rod (bracket under the shifter). it does not use a "plastic" bushing like the later (post 59) busses do. again, as far as i know, those "M" shaped springs are not being reproduced, and again hard to find NOS. the bracket for the front shift rod is also different for the "M" shaped spring.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=253992
i had a later (post 59) front bracket on my 59 and it made shifting difficult. i found the correct parts, put them on, and the shifter works great. i have all the correct early stuff on my 56 and it works awesome. |
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olivhed
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2002
Posts: 95
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:27 am Post subject: |
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I was afraid of that. Sorry, I don't have the VIN handy. I believe it was built in Sept. of '55. My truck is in a buddies garage a little less than local.
The M clip is worn through and cracked as well so I'll need to find both. Are there other clips located between the two we've talked about? I recall there being four pass through points; three evenly spaced in front of the tranny and a double thick one up front with a channel connecting the two just behind the shift rod coupler.
If I'm going on a hunt I'd like to make sure I get everything I need. Thank you for your help.
_________________
'56 Single Cab
'71 Hardtop Westy
'07 Rabbit |
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campingbox 
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000
Posts: 10267
Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| olivhed wrote: |
I was afraid of that. Sorry, I don't have the VIN handy. I believe it was built in Sept. of '55. My truck is in a buddies garage a little less than local.
The M clip is worn through and cracked as well so I'll need to find both. Are there other clips located between the two we've talked about? I recall there being four pass through points; three evenly spaced in front of the tranny and a double thick one up front with a channel connecting the two just behind the shift rod coupler.
If I'm going on a hunt I'd like to make sure I get everything I need. Thank you for your help. |
You only need one of each style spring. On '57 & earlier busses, the only bushing for the long shift rod is found in the forward crossmember just behind the front shift coupler. These springs almost always look like the one you pictured in the gallery.....and more often than not they are missing entirely. When new they work great but as soon as you take the bus off road you'll realize why they changed to the sealed tube/plastic bushings in '57. Grit/dirt fly up into those bushings and you can actually feel the grit when shifting. Once while roadtripping, I've actually had to get under there with a can of oil because the gritty feeling was bothering me so bad.
Please let me know if you find any extra NOS "M" springs, I wouldn't mind having a couple spares. |
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4797
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:44 am Post subject: |
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I've cross-posted the info both below both here and also over in my build thread "BulliBill's 1959 Double-Cab restoration" looking for some advice. "Hazetguy" was replying to someone else about shifter and parts issues, but his last comment made in the following quote applied to my current situation...
| hazetguy wrote: |
none of the parts you ordered from cip1 are gonna be correct or work on your bus. what's your vin number?
the one you took a pic of (in the gallery) is the bushing for the long shift rod. it clips into the frame crossmember. here is a pic of an NOS one in the gallery. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=267099 nobody reproduces them, and as far as i know, they are very hard to find NOS. also, if you look at your bus, there is no tube that the long shift rod goes into. the long rod also has no holes drilled in it for any bushings. so the bushings you ordered for the long rod are useless to you. not sure when the tube for the shift rod started, but i know my 2/56 standard does not have one, just the exposed shift rod.
you also will need an "M" shaped leaf spring for the front shift rod (bracket under the shifter). it does not use a "plastic" bushing like the later (post 59) busses do. again, as far as i know, those "M" shaped springs are not being reproduced, and again hard to find NOS. the bracket for the front shift rod is also different for the "M" shaped spring.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=253992
i had a later (post 59) front bracket on my 59 and it made shifting difficult. i found the correct parts, put them on, and the shifter works great. i have all the correct early stuff on my 56 and it works awesome. |
As I currently put my April '59 Double-Cab together, I see that I might have an issue to rectify with the forward shift assembly. The DC came to me with the '60-ish and later shifter guide that uses the plastic bushing and that is what is currently installed in my DC. I'm pretty certain now that it should have the earlier style shift guide that uses the "M" spring (which thanks to John I have both a nice used earlier guide and his repro "M" spring here standing by if needed). By the way, my '59 DC has the protective tube that the shift rod passes thru (using plastic "badminton birdie"-style bushing which I've already replaced).
Question #1: did the forward shift rod change at all when the guide changed from "M" spring-type to plastic bushing-type? If it did, maybe I have the right forward rod, maybe not? Any way to easily tell?
Question #2: "if" I have the right forward shift rod, and "if" I need to switch out the later guide/plastic bushing assembly for the earlier guide/"M" spring assembly, can it be done fairly easily without having to remove the transaxle? Can the coupler for the front/rear rods be removed and the forward rod removed enough to swap out the newer for the older assemblies and then put back together?
Or if it is impossible (or a nightmare) to do the above without removing the transaxle, then we come to question #3: Can the later guide with plastic bushing be used as I have it installed now? I've heard vaguely that this could be done "if" some shims are used to either:
a) move the later-style guide downward a little below floor level, or to
b) move the shifter assembly above the cab floor level upward.
Which solution would be preferred, and how thick would a shim or washers need to be? I'm imagining that the issue is that the ball on the end of the hand shifter lever might sit too low into the "cup" on the forward end of the forward shift rod below the cab floor causing "iffy" shifting. Without the "shimming" the shifting is rough, and for me shifting into all gears is a little tricky as things are now on the DC.
Thanks for any advice to all of us from anyone who has had to deal with this combination/scenario already ("campingbox", "hazetguy", ?). And thanks again to "hazetguy" for hooking me up with the earlier guide plate and that awesome reproduction "M" spring a while back. I'm always trying to straighten out the few little "improvements/hacks" that I discover on this DC and get it back to original...
Bill Bowman
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames from old Volkswagen dealerships for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4797
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:03 am Post subject: |
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For further clarification, without having to lay on the ground this morning beneath the DC on a cold floor, I found a couple of photos taken months ago when I put the shifter guide/and rod assembly back onto the Bus...
For the life of me I couldn't remember at 2:30am what version of forward shift rod I had on the Double-Cab, and by the photos it looks like I luckily have the proper, original, earlier forward rod up through around '60 (according to John's photos of all four versions of front shift rods in a shift rod thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383130&highlight=shift+rods )? You can clearly see it and the later guide with the lightly (needs more!) greased-up plastic bushing. That earlier forward shift rod should work much happier once I swap out the later shift guide with plastic bushing for the earlier shift guide with John's repo "M" leaf spring.
It might still be helpful to others to know more (perhaps a "how-to" and photos?) about "shimming" when you find you have to use the later guide on an earlier Bus. Anyone with experience?
Bill
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames from old Volkswagen dealerships for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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VWLady
Crazy VW Lady
Joined: March 13, 2004
Posts: 3868
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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easy e
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 3942
Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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easy e
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 3942
Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| BulliBill wrote: |
| Question #1: did the forward shift rod change at all when the guide changed from "M" spring-type to plastic bushing-type? |
Don't know...
From Berg site:
Pre 1960 bus shifter. Chassis number up through 501706, ball diameter 15.7mm.
60-65 bus shifter. Fits chassis number 501707 through 216-028-111. Our ball is standard 21.50mm.
| BulliBill wrote: |
| Question #2: "if" I have the right forward shift rod, and "if" I need to switch out the later guide/plastic bushing assembly for the earlier guide/"M" spring assembly, can it be done fairly easily without having to remove the transaxle? Can the coupler for the front/rear rods be removed and the forward rod removed enough to swap out the newer for the older assemblies and then put back together? |
Yes
_________________
aka: Evan
Spreadsheet for Bus RPM, based on gearing & tire size (Excel format)
Searchable, click-navigable 1958 Bus Parts List
“They are about as worthless as the tits on the boars that live in the woods behind their junk yard.” -Weatherly |
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