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gil
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:39 am    Post subject: ratio rockers Reply with quote

hey there
i am thinking to adapt ratio rockers to my vanagon 1.9l
i saw all the parts in cip1.com
i want to know how to fit them?
how to calculate the number of shims to put under the rockers arm and if there is a special lenght of the pushrod to cut?
tanks
gil
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What ratio are you talking about? I think all the waterboxer Vanagons came with 1.25:1 rockers to begin with.
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JunkYarDog
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
What ratio are you talking about? I think all the waterboxer Vanagons came with 1.25:1 rockers to begin with.

Someone confirm...
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what I'd always heard - there's no big spec chart in the latemodel Vanagon manual to look it up on though. Here is an old post that mentions it though:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89473
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wbx
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weird... i always thought they were the standard 1.1:1. Not that i've ever measured them, but i'm pretty sure i've always heard of people putting in 1.25:1 ratio rockers.

How was that for helpful? Rolling Eyes

-Damon
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JunkYarDog
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wbx wrote:
Weird... i always thought they were the standard 1.1:1. Not that i've ever measured them, but i'm pretty sure i've always heard of people putting in 1.25:1 ratio rockers.

How was that for helpful? Rolling Eyes

-Damon

I thought 1.25:1 was supposed to be a power adder over a stock 1.1:1. Sure would like to know before I waste money on something I don't need.
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DAVEURO
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please leave well enough alone.
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JunkYarDog
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DAVEURO wrote:
Please leave well enough alone.

Your leaving a lot to interpret here.
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DAVEURO
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am saying that if it doesn't work as original then maybe get something that fits better and quit trying. Not trying to be an a$$ but unless you have piles of money, just get the beast that goes like you would like and leave the rest alone. I would love to have a perfect 89 Westy rather than one than can pull a Wheely and need to be fixed every week. What I am saying is if that if original is not enough then get something different. Keep it stock or prepare to ask many questions to the GURU of your choice.
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wbx
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DAVEURO wrote:
I am saying that if it doesn't work as original then maybe get something that fits better and quit trying... Keep it stock or prepare to ask many questions to the GURU of your choice.


What a bizarre statement...
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DAVEURO
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wbx wrote:
DAVEURO wrote:
I am saying that if it doesn't work as original then maybe get something that fits better and quit trying... Keep it stock or prepare to ask many questions to the GURU of your choice.


What a bizarre statement...
and then again what a bizarre reply....
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wbx
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, true... i'll elaborate just a bit. Basically, you are saying no car should ever be modified from stock. It is bizarre because you are

a) definitely in the minority opinion
b) putting a lot of undue faith in engineers (of which i am one)
c) telling people in fairly absolutist terms what they should be doing with their own vehicles.

Not trying to be an a$$, just commenting on a surprising statement of yours, that's all.

-Damon
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DAVEURO
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apoligies gil, I feel that you need to confer with a professional. My technical advice is meek and not worthy. I hope your pursuits are accomplished. David
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not trying to be an a$$


I normally like to stay out of these things, but this begs a response.

Nothing personal, but trying or not, you are being an ass.

Quote:
My technical advice is meek and not worthy.


It can be neither, because it isn't technical advice.

If you can't offer anything helpful to a completely legitimate technical question, you should refrain from comment. There are threads where someone is asking for an opinion, and threads where someone is requesting technical info. This is not one of the former. Learn to tell the difference.

OEM wbx rockers are 1.1:1 ratio, just like Type 1's. The poster in the linked thread was incorrect, and had he measured his rockers, he could have found out that fact for himself. This aint rocket science, kiddys.

1500cc and later T1 and wbx rocker gear is completely interchangeable, arms, shafts, and blocks. Pushrods are steel rather than aluminum, because of the lower expansion rate of the cooler-running wbx engine, so exchanging them is not advised. The lengths may be different as well, I don't know offhand, because it's an unimportant distinction; you wouldn't want to exchange them even if they were the same length.

However, the wbx and T1 rockers are not the same part. Wbx rockers got fitted with 9mm adjuster screws, and later they went up to 10mm. That is the only functional difference from T1 rockers. That doesn't prohibit their being exchanged, though.

I have sets and sets of 1.1:1 wbx rockers around, because I put 1.25's on my engines. They provide a nice mid- to high-range power increase, especially if used with a freer-flowing exhaust. There are many aftermarket versions, any of which can work. There are ones that have their adjuster over the valve stem, and the type that have their adjuster on the pushrod end of the arm. I prefer the stem type, because the other require stem lash caps and I'm not personally a fan of those. That's an opinion. Your tastes may differ from mine.

With a simple, solid adjuster screw, any of the 1.25 rockers will bolt right up, no shimming is needed. I like to use the Rhino-foot type adjusters, and they require a 0.060" (1.5mm) shim under the rocker blocks to get clearance. This also happens to put the valve geometry very close to perfect when used with that type adjuster. If your valves are deeply-seated you may need more.

Many tuners have got good results by just using 1.25's in the intakes, leaving the exhausts 1.1. It's easy to experiment, and as always, YMMV.


Last edited by tencentlife on Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JunkYarDog
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As cool as it sounds to pull a wheely in a vanagon, that's not what I am after. I do however wish to gain any HP I can free up and possibly improve effiency. Why not improve on 20+ year old tecknowledgy. It seems lots of folks are opting for a Suburu or other conversion. Maybe stock but not in a Vanagon. I like the wbx but would like to get a little more from it.

tencentlife,

Thanks for the info. I will be doing more research on the matter.

V/R
JYD
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r39o
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything that can easily and reliably boost the performance of the 1.9 is a winner in my book. We have not killed the 1.9 in our Westy yet. BUT, it is a slow toad even though it is running just like it should.

I am not overly excited at replacing the engine in our Westy, so I have not done the Suby as I like. So keeping the 1.9 on the road is just fine with me. It is just a tad dangerous to drive such a low performance vehicle here in So Cali. Heck, they hardly even notice the big white elephant in traffic and all sorts of nasty driving gets directed towards us. The damn thing just won't do more than about 85 (I am afraid to go that fast.) I just don't go faster than 70 and prefer to go much slower. If I can get what amounts to be free go, I should do it. Anybody driving a 1.9 knows this.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If I can get what amounts to be free go, I should do it. Anybody driving a 1.9 knows this.


We 2.1 owners know it just as well. Not exactly a rocket ship, that.
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JunkYarDog
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

r39o wrote:
It is just a tad dangerous to drive such a low performance vehicle here in So Cali. Heck, they hardly even notice the big white elephant in traffic and all sorts of nasty driving gets directed towards us.


I know what you mean. I was around LA last year, (drove a rental). I remember the speed limit on I-10 to be something like 65, but running 80-85 I was all kinds of in the way! You need a good Rear hatch sticker that tells the traffic behind you (that is approaching at 60mph) to suck it up! Crazy I tell ya!
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Alan Brase
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JunkYarDog wrote:
r39o wrote:
It is just a tad dangerous to drive such a low performance vehicle here in So Cali. Heck, they hardly even notice the big white elephant in traffic and all sorts of nasty driving gets directed towards us.


I know what you mean. I was around LA last year, (drove a rental). I remember the speed limit on I-10 to be something like 65, but running 80-85 I was all kinds of in the way! You need a good Rear hatch sticker that tells the traffic behind you (that is approaching at 60mph) to suck it up! Crazy I tell ya!

Gas must not be nearly expensive enough, yet. I was hoping higher prices would get s few of the most unsafe off the road, at least.
Makes out 65-75mph traffic seem pretty tame.
Al
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