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Added seat belt to rear bench & a 3-point alternative
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kayakwesty
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Added seat belt to rear bench & a 3-point alternative Reply with quote

I was walking the pull-a-part yard today, and came across a 1992 Jetta. I wanted to add a third seat belt to my Westy for a while now. When giving shuttles to friends, I wanted to add a belt in case we get pulled over by Johnny Law.

BUT, when digging around in the back of Jetta, I recogized the parts, the retractable belts, are the same ones I bought from GoWesty, even down to the trim pieces they sell , are the same one that goes on the back deck of the Jetta...I got sick knowing what I paid for the kit, when my kit could have been the Jetta

I paid over $100 dollars each when I bought my GoWesty 3-point belts, even the factory Jetta bolts are the one that comes with the GoWesty kit,the belts and the whole nine yards was 5 bucks at the pull yard

so back at the ranch

the pictures are of what it took that help me convert my Westy to have another belt, so I now have 2 each 3 point belts and a lap belt in the middle of the bench

I hope this will help someone save some money on my find, go to the Junkyard!

Here is the donor car (sorry the bad pic is from my cell phone)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


here is the before pic of the Westy with only 2 seat belts

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Here is the factory Jetta seat belt


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Here is the 3 seat belt setup...after installing the Jetta parts

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Here is the overall setup...


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Btw all of this straight up bolt on stuff, the internal mount-threads are already in the van, just take all the trim pieces, and all the bolts.
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kayakwesty
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figured someone might want to see the "3-point" seat belt set-up , pictures are better than words..so here goes

here is where it bolts up in the back closet on the drivers side

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is where it comes thru the closet....btw way that trim piece is the same one that is on a Jetta MKII back deck

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here is the passenger side

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the belt on the mat is a Jetta belt...it compares to the GoWesty Kit...hint hint...cough...cough

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



here is the passenger side for the "3-point" mount, under the bench seat

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here is the middle , underneath the bench


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here is the driver's side mounting position for the "3-point" seat belt

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here is another pic of the closet


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All of this is bolt-up, VW already installed the internal threads , it's all there
_________________
1984 Westy 2.0 Jetta ABA Motor/1.8 head converted to auto tranny, with 180,000 on body, 55K on engine and transmission

B.5.5 Passat Wagen with 30v V6-67000 Miles

DAS AUTO

CHANGE YOUR FUEL LINES!

A post without pictures is useless

http://www.kayakwesty.com

http://www.waldensridgewhitewater.com/
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oldskewlsk8ter
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just parted out a 91 Jetta and I thought the same thing about the seatbelts...except I tried to put one up front where the belt had been chewed through by mice. It looked exactly the same as the OG westy belts, and installed with no problems, except it is about 8" too short to buckle up.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, good find and nice job. But don't you want to have the double clasp at one side and a single one butt-width away, so three passengers can us the belts? I just see three clasps all in one spot. Am I just dense or is that a problem?
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice. Just curious - another photo with the cabinet door open?

TIA, Tom
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joetiger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just out at the junkyard looking at MK2 Jetta rear seat belts.

It appears that they have the reel in the trunk, then another loop that mounts by the shoulder, then the third mount that goes down behind the seat.

How do you retrofit these to a Vanagon? Do you remove that extra loop that mounts at the shoulder and just use the reel and the final mount? It looks to me like the Vanagon only has two mounting points--the one in the back for the reel, and the one down under the side of the seat.

I apologize if I'm missing something...I just changed out a driveshaft flange seal and I'm a bit loopy...
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joetiger Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any takers on this question? I'm trying to get this done before the big Xmas trip (my daughter has a gigantic pink princess booster seat now and no longer appreciates the standard child seat in the Vanagon.)

Looks like some folks have this set up, with the reel at the top point:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And I found another pic with the reel at the bottom:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Can the Jetta belts be used as shown in the bottom pic? Or are they too short? Are there mounting points in the bottom? Thanks for any help!
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Aaron
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BUMP.... I have seen mention of the Jetta belts working and then people saying that they don't work. Any further installations? Are the belts long enough to mount the reel in the lower position? Any help would be great. Thanks
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PDX_Guy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:01 am    Post subject: Head rests Reply with quote

Hey everyone,

I just bought my fist VW, a syncro westfalia. Took me 6 months of looking but I found a killer deal on a really nice rig. Driving back with the kids this weekend I realized having just the lap belts are probably not the best option for long camping trips. I like the Jetta fix for the rear three point seat belts. Has anyone tried to adapt headrests from the front seats of a Vanagon into the rear seats? Would be curious if anyone has tried to weld a bracket so they could be removed so that the seat can still be folded down to make a bed. If no one has, I might have to be the first.
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climberjohn
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey PDX guy,

First off, welcome to the Samba and the Portland community of vanatics.

I tried the Jetta seatbelts., They did NOT work for me.
I could never get them to properly extend and retract.

After mucho frustration with this, I bought the Go Westy bran-new ones. They work perfectly, and are new, strong, and reliable. It's just what I want my kids strapped into.

I think 1621 (samba name) made some clever head restraints for the bench seats that can be removed for folding down the bed. Let's hope he chimes in here.

xo,
CJ
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madspaniard
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:29 am    Post subject: Re: Head rests Reply with quote

PDX_Guy wrote:
Hey everyone,
Has anyone tried to adapt headrests from the front seats of a Vanagon into the rear seats? Would be curious if anyone has tried to weld a bracket so they could be removed so that the seat can still be folded down to make a bed. If no one has, I might have to be the first.


been done by several Samba members

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=239679&highlight=headrest

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=276938&highlight=headrest
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PDX_Guy
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KayakWesty and the Samba Crew. Thanks for the suggestions. At first I had confused the Jetta three point seatbelt conversion with the middle seatbelt topic and thought that the Jetta female connectors only worked with the Jetta belts. I had gone with the Gowesty conversion because I figured it would be the easiest with little hassle. After re-reading the posts I realized that the Jetta female ends did work with the GoWesty 3 point belts. Surprised BTW I brought an old belt to the junk yard and I tried 1990-1994 and they all seemed to work with my 1986 syncro belt. Thanks again. Laughing
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tkgeorge_99
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had similar difficulties with the jetta seat belts. I was all excited to save some $ but ended up wasting about $50 and getting very frustrated. I am not sure if my donor Jetta was the wrong one or what happened but I didn't have any luck.
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Wellington
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about using factory Vanagon rear shoulder belts in the rear of a Westfalia. Think it's been covered before.
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ZestyNora
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also did the Jetta belts and had retract issues until I popped the cover and removed this little device that contained a ball bearing which prevented the belt from working properly at any mounting angle except 15 degrees. Once removed, no problems at all! The belts I got were plenty long for me (and I'm a big guy), even though I grabbed the ones with the ratcheting retract feature found in all modern cars.

I don't know if they would work on the cabinet side in a full westy, however - they might be just a tad too short. I have done a trial mounting for the rear facing jump seats in my MV, but I will need to do some modification for that to work.

Total cost? about $36 for three belts (one for a jumpseat, two in the back). All I have left to do is cut off the pivot bracket that mounted up high in the Jetta. Another note: these belts are also found in the Golf of the same model years.

I will post photos soon.
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hauptmann
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to see pics! Thanks!
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ZestyNora
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a new member and therefore new to posting pictures, I will do my best here:

I used seat belts out of MKIII Jettas (a '96 and '97) because I wanted the ratcheting feature for children's car seats, but this same process applies to the non-ratcheting types as well that come out of MKII Jettas.

First pull a good, non-frayed or moldy belt from a MKII or MKIII Jetta. I won't go into this because Kayakwesty did a decent job with it. The MKIII is slightly more difficult, but it is still pretty straight forward when you start pulling panels. Also note that you do NOT need the seat belt receivers from the Jetta if you have a late model Vanagon. I have a 1990 MV, which is nice since the Vanagon receivers are a little longer. If you have an earlier van, you might want to pull the receivers just in case. I circled the upper pivot slider bracket (what is that thing called?) in the photo that needs to be removed in whichever way you see fit.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Next you'll need to prep the seat belt reel. This took me a bit of head scratching and frustration to figure out initially, but I discovered it is actually very straight forward and takes maybe two minutes. Here is the process with pictures:

Find the two push out plastic lock pins on the LARGER side cover. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO OPEN THE OTHER SIDE - the flatter side cover contains the rewind spring and it is held in place by the cover - remove the cover and the spring will fly out in your face. Don't ask me how I know this...

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Push them out using a pencil or small screwdriver, making sure not to lose them...

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Now pull up the cover and remove it - one of its hinge pins acts as a third pin holding on the cover. On all of them I removed I ended up breaking one of the legs off, so grab an extra cover or two when you're at the yard.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Once those are off, pull off the cover (may need to wiggle it a little to get it, but should be relatively easy).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You'll see the part to remove right away - it's a ball bearing caught between a base and a movable flap that has extensions on it. Those extensions engage small teeth on the reel mechanism to prevent it from fully extending in any mounting position EXCEPT the Jetta's 15 degree mount. This is the only thing preventing you from using this belt in any VW built between the early 80's to the late 90's (?). My guess is that they put it there so that you had to buy car-specific parts at their desired mark-up, but allowing them to make a more or less universal part at a wholesale price.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Extension position when mounted at 15 degrees:
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Extension position when not mounted at 15 degrees:
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This little ball bearing unit just slides right out, (see highlighted slot in the photo below) and that's it - you're done! Give the belt a slow pull and you'll notice there is nothing stopping it now! Give it a sharp pull and BAM! The belt still functions as intended in the event of a crash.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


When reinstalling the cover, make sure it is seated all the way around before attempting to reinsert the little plastic plug lock thingys. Also note that the plug locks are tapered at one end and therefore much easier to reinstall when put in taper-first.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now mount as posted above in the thread and you're done! As Kayakwesty pointed out, the stock 17mm bolts from the Jetta work perfectly for the mounting. I also took the small aluminum spacers (8mm?) behind the upper mounting points in the Jetta and used them under my rear panels to prevent them from pinching/ cracking the panels.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I got a little over zealous and installed mine before cutting off the upper hinge slider units, but they'll be coming off soon enough.

Another note: The side cover of the Jetta belts look a little different depending on which model you pull it from, but as long as it is from the rear of a MKII or early MKIII Jetta, it'll probably work just fine. If you don't like the ratcheting feature (where it ratchets back in once pulled all the way out) than look for one out of a MKII.

Hope this helps!
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Bntbrl
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roughly how long are the belts from one end to th other that came from the gowesty kit or the Jetta belts that appear the same?
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the stormtrooper
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd really appreciate feedback on this suggestion I just made to my brother-in-law, re adding a third seatbelt to the back bench. He and my sis have an 8 and 10 year old and are expecting their third imminently, who they have to find space for in their 1982 full camper.

************************

I don't want you to weld in a latch bar. You couldn't do a perimeter weld because of the ridges, so you'd have to stitch across their tops. That might be okay, but welding can also embrittle metal with heat. Welding something this important on the thin sheet-metal makes me very uncomfortable. Volkswagen didn't do it that way.

I have another suggestion, building on what kayakwesty did http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=244354

He added a third loop, but with no space between male and female in the middle position. I suggest you could do a similar set up, but move an anchor to have space between m/f in the middle position.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Adding one anchor to the back shouldn't be too big a deal. An appropriate grade nut and washer should do it. You can see what Volkswagen did in the pic below. You can see the back of the bolt at C (pic above) in one, and the plastic cap at C' in the other. They seem to just use a spot weld to tack it in place, but I don't think they're rely on weld structurally. The access isn't terrible on the driver's side. The area is covered in insulation but you could cut a patch out, mine's crumbling away anyway.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


We need to keep in mind that A and B would be carrying the load of two seatbelts, whereas stock only places one on each, so this is only for when your kids are still small; but, adding up combined weights, it seems like you'd be below design loads for a few years.

Go here for any custom seatbelts that might be needed: https://www.seatbeltplanet.com/.

What do you think?
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tam_shops
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not add a jump seat behind the passenger seat? New baby is going to need a car seat for yearS to come and 3 on that bench w/ a car seat is going to be super squishy.

Also, just so you know, a 3pt belt routed through that closet (like most do) is not safe. Sorry to rain on your parade.

If a jump seat is not going to happen, the baby can sit in the middle w/ just a lap belt, in a rear facing car seat (Diono or Foonf being the narrowest and longest lasting rear facing) for years (my oldest lasted until ~6yo rear facing). Then, they'd have to add a top tether anchor for a forward facing seat (still using that same lap belt).

8yo is legal in a lap only belt, but not safe. If they add 3pt belts, head rests need to accompany that. 10 yo is legal in lap belt or 3pt belt, not safe w/ out head rests. 3pt obviously being safER than lap only belt.

tam

the stormtrooper wrote:
I'd really appreciate feedback on this suggestion I just made to my brother-in-law, re adding a third seatbelt to the back bench. He and my sis have an 8 and 10 year old and are expecting their third imminently, who they have to find space for in their 1982 full camper.

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