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Replacing transmission drive flange oil seal -pics-
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stl_stadtroller
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

presslab wrote:

Did you use an impact driver to get the screws out?
ETKA shows the screws as M7x1.25x13, part number N 090 173 3. It is an odd screw, hope that helps you to find it.


Yeah, I did. But the Phillips slots were already completely rounded out, so I had to carefully cut a new slot and and then used a flat blade in the impact driver.

I do not want to put those back in!!! Shocked

thanks for the specs... still searching. All the suppliers I've found so far only go up to an M6. Confused

EDIT: After Googling your exact part description / part # it appears that I'm not alone! Lots of Vortex and water-cooled forum threads of folks trying to find this same screw. apparently it's also used as a speedo cable retainer on Rabbits!

EDIT #2: Dealer orderable... 6$ EACH!! Shocked Shocked Evil or Very Mad
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Summers420us
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are VERY proud of their hardware!
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
EDIT: After Googling your exact part description / part # it appears that I'm not alone! Lots of Vortex and water-cooled forum threads of folks trying to find this same screw. apparently it's also used as a speedo cable retainer on Rabbits

'84-'99 jetta use it as a speedo cable retainer bolt
'68-'79 busses and all vanagons use it in the same position
Just some more wrecking yard options for you.

You can get them from vwdiscountparts.com for less than a buck and a half each new.
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stl_stadtroller
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

syncrodoka wrote:
Quote:
EDIT: After Googling your exact part description / part # it appears that I'm not alone! Lots of Vortex and water-cooled forum threads of folks trying to find this same screw. apparently it's also used as a speedo cable retainer on Rabbits

'84-'99 jetta use it as a speedo cable retainer bolt
'68-'79 busses and all vanagons use it in the same position
Just some more wrecking yard options for you.

You can get them from vwdiscountparts.com for less than a buck and a half each new.


Thanks for the source, but after shipping I may as well just pay the dealer price for a few.

Bookmarked for future oddball part needs though, thanks!
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chimivee
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in the middle of this job, and I can't get the old flange seals out. I tried inserting a screw as mentioned by the OP, but the screw simply tore out as I pried. Found a "seal puller" at Sears, like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I gave it a go, but I'm not sure it's meant for this odd shaped seal (or maybe I'm using it wrong Embarassed ).

Any other ideas on getting these seals things out?. Today was a frustrating Vanagaon day. Sad
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where he shows the screw going in is just a rubber lip with a spring. Try on the part of the seal with the recessed blocks in it, that part of the seal has a metal backing.
The seal puller you bought usually works well but maybe not in this situation. Are you laying it flat against the shaft and wedging it under the seal?
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presslab
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chimivee wrote:

Any other ideas on getting these seals things out?. Today was a frustrating Vanagaon day. Sad


I used the same puller, in a parking lot in Reno. Wink It worked ok, I pried against the adjuster ring. It takes a lot of force, as it bends the seal because it does not pull straight out.
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deprivation
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

syncrodoka wrote:
Try on the part of the seal with the recessed blocks in it, that part of the seal has a metal backing.

Exactly right. You'll have to put the screw in fairly close to the outside of the seal because it is strongest there. Be care not to gouge the flange itself.

BTW, I used drywall zip screws to remove my seal and they worked very well.

Good luck. You'll get it.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be sure to check that the atmospheric bleed in the top front of the trans is not blocked before starting on this job. If it is plugged (quite common) then it will make brand new seals leak. And if it is plugged and your seals are leaking, unplugging it will often cure the leaking without needing to change the seals.
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syncros rarely have that problem because the vent line is plumbed over the gas tank not open right over the nosecone like 2wd vans
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Leebo
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so I had some tranny fluid leaking out of my boot (driver/tranny joint). I read some previous posts and thought that maybe it was just my drive flange cap that had failed and that by replacing that piece it would be all good.

So, I removed the axle bolts and the drive flange cap fell to the floor. It looks to be fine after a cleaning. So, do I simply place this back on and bolt the axle back to the tranny and all is good? After reading this post I'm wondering if it may be my drive flange seals? Does the cap "click" or "snap' in? For mine, it just seems to kind of lay there.

Also, since I have been losing the tranny fluid, I'll need to top it off. I have searched and it appears the drain plug is located on the bottom towards the engine. Where the heck is the fill plug? I thought I read it was on the driver's side about half way up?

Thanks!!
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chimivee
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deprivation wrote:
syncrodoka wrote:
Try on the part of the seal with the recessed blocks in it, that part of the seal has a metal backing.

Exactly right. You'll have to put the screw in fairly close to the outside of the seal because it is strongest there. Be care not to gouge the flange itself.

BTW, I used drywall zip screws to remove my seal and they worked very well.

Good luck. You'll get it.

Thanks SD and Dep. for the tips. I had the screw more toward the inside of the seal, per the OP's photos. I recall some metal fleck when I drilled, so I think I caught the metal in the seal. But I will try again further out. Thanks!
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chimivee
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

syncrodoka wrote:
Syncros rarely have that problem because the vent line is plumbed over the gas tank not open right over the nosecone like 2wd vans

Yes, I should have mentioned that this is for my Syncro. And I did start by making a 20-second attempt at checking for blockage on the vent line... But after following the tube back to where it disappeared into the abyss, I moved on. Smile
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chimivee
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leebo wrote:
So, I removed the axle bolts and the drive flange cap fell to the floor. It looks to be fine after a cleaning. So, do I simply place this back on and bolt the axle back to the tranny and all is good? After reading this post I'm wondering if it may be my drive flange seals? Does the cap "click" or "snap' in? For mine, it just seems to kind of lay there.

FWIW, my driver side cap fell right out too when I pulled the axle; the CV was flooded with gear oil. But I was also getting oil weeping from the passenger side, even thought that cap was in tact.

On a related note, how do the flange seal (axle seal) and flange cap differ in terms of how/what they are sealing? It sounds like tranny oil isn't necessarily contained by the flange seal, since a bad/loose cap can leak oil too. Should the new cap be installed with RTV?
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presslab
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chimivee wrote:
On a related note, how do the flange seal (axle seal) and flange cap differ in terms of how/what they are sealing? It sounds like tranny oil isn't necessarily contained by the flange seal, since a bad/loose cap can leak oil too. Should the new cap be installed with RTV?


The cap seals against oil leaking past the splines between the axle and the flange into the CV joint. The axle seal prevents oil from leaking out around the flange.

Yes clean the metal parts and rubber cap with acetone and apply silicone sealant (RTV) where the cap touches the flange before assembly. Afterward, it's not a bad idea to liberally apply silicone sealant over the top of the cap, especially if you run aftermarket drive axles.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so I figured out that I had the flange cap on backwards (duh!). After I flipped it around I used the back of a screwdriver to "pop" it back in. Now I'm wondering if that will solve my tranny oil leaking in the boot or do I need to replace the seal, too? I guess I'll drive around the block and see if it still leaks or not.
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chimivee
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, turns out, being dumb isn't so bad... when you're internet friends are SMART. Very Happy Thanks all for the help. Got it done.

I figured I'd start with Presslab's suggestion and tried the seal puller again. I had to pryl REALLY REALLY hard, pulling from a couple points along the seal perimeter before it came out.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Getting it all back together took a little effort too. The passenger side flange took probably 200 blows with a block/mallot to seat it fully. Following tips here, I used a honkin' socket (1.25") to hammer against and press the spring washer to seat the clip. BTW, removing the flange was by no means easy either - didn't come close to sliding off. I rigged a FLAPS loaner puller tool to work and really cranked on the thing to get it off.

Anyway, thanks again all! I hope others have a little easier time with this one than me.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, you got lucky with those. I also had to use a puller to get both flanges off. The seals were unbelievable as well - a fight to the end. I have a seal puller I've used for 20 years and perhaps a hundred seals. Broke it and had not budged the first seal. Went to NAPA and got a top shelf one and still had to use a cheater bar.

A tip on putting them back in. The seal has ribbed edges that contact the seating area. For some reason, these don't yield to hammer blows well - almost as if they flex in, then rebound back out with little actual progress. So after I had them started and progress stopped with quite a bit to go, I used a long piece of wood for leverage and pried them in the rest of the way using a large socket to push against. It was surprisingly little effort to push it home though minutes before it had not budged with a heavy plastic and brass hammer. I think it's those ribs.

The flanges needed to be pounded on with the brass hammer. Just work around the flange edge after it's started on the splines.

DougM
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:20 am    Post subject: drive flange Reply with quote

Blue Bay Bus Thanks guys, as always you come to the rescue , mine started to leak last week, had know idea how to do this. Getting ready to order parts monday . Now I know what I'm getting myself into! Very Happy
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tap a 12 pt socket over the heads and they come right out without drama.
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