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Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal
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qbini
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

Thanks to all you who contributed to this thread!

The leaks started right after a transaxle fluid flush and fill. I had heard that sometimes, if it's been a while, draining and refilling can cause the seals to leak.

I was able to complete the seal replacement without too much trouble. It was a mess down there - the plastic flange covers were completely trashed. I used both the seal puller and screw methods to get the seals out. Once side popped right out with the seal puller and the other required the screw method. Both my flanges pulled off rather easily so i didn't need a puller - they also went back on easy with just a tap to seat them. I did run into a problem with 2 of the CV joint bolts(allen keyed) - ended up using a method i found on another VW forum. I tried the triple square and screw extractors but had a hard time getting them to seat properly to work. I ended up using a pair of vicegrips to grab the head of the bolt, then used another pliers to further tighten the vicegrips screw. Once it broke loose the bolt backed right out. I replace all the CV joint bolts with triple squares from T3 Technique. I also ran into an issue with my torque wrench; it is too long to be able to get under there. I ended up buying a shorter torque wrench and it worked great. I also made sure the trans air hole was clear to make sure it didn't blow out the new seals. I did this in my driveway which created it's own challenges, but wasn't as bad as i imagined. Went camping this weekend and so far no leaks.

What a mess!
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The old parts - the plastic cover was completely trashed.
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New seal installed.
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Seal cover, flange, washer and circclip re-installed.
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Cap installed with a touch of RTV - the same as i found it.
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Tight squeeze; this side was a little cramped to exhaust piping.
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Make sure you have the right ring pliers with the 90 degree heads to remove/install the circ clip.
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I had to buy a shorter torque wrench to fit in the tight space under the van since i didn't have a lift.
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qbini
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
That spring is part of the old seal. It fits inside it and helps hold the seal lip tight against the turning shaft.

Mark


Thanks Mark!
I looked at the new seal and can see it on the inside lip.

-k


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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

That spring is part of the old seal. It fits inside it and helps hold the seal lip tight against the turning shaft.

Mark
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qbini
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

My transaxle leak suddenly got worse after the last drain and refill. So, I am working on getting this done on my 87 camper 4 spd manual. So far, it has gone pretty well - a few stubborn bolts and a feisty flange seal. Thanks to all those who have provided instructions and tips - really helpful.

Now i'm ready to start re-installation... but this spring ring fell out of the assembly after the seal was removed. Does anyone know what this is? It is not rubber! it is a spring ring; I can stretch it and it springs back.

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Thanks!
Kevin


Last edited by qbini on Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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syncroserge
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

You can just tilt the van sideways with ramps or wood boards. You don't need that much, 2 to 4"
and no gear oil should come out.

As a bonus you get a bit more room to work..
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PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

captainpartytime wrote:
My flange came right off. I rapped on it very gently with a mechanics hammer to try and resonate the metal in order to loosen it. I then hit it a couple times with a rubber mallet and it came off with very little pulling force. I definitely DID NOT need a puller. When I re-assembled the flange I rapped it again pretty hard with my rubber mallet to try and seat the flange. I then opened up the new circlip with my pliers and installed it. The circlip wasn't fully seated so I took my brass punch and very gently tapped the circlip working it around until it finally seated. For me, getting the new seal fully seated was the hardest part. Another poster told me to get a socket that just barely cleared the shaft and tap on it which would push on the flange and force the circlip on. I thought this was a good idea but I didn't have any sockets that big (bigger than 22 mm). I would say that this install was easier than I originally anticipated. It's been almost a month and I haven't seen any tranny fluid leak since! Good Luck!!!


Is it recommended to first drain gear oil prior to replacing inner drive flange? If replacing the seal on the inner side at the same time that is...
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DCzilla
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

riceye wrote:
All was well for the trip back home to Wisconsin. I guess the point of my reply is to suggest that the breather hole be checked for obstruction whenever a leak is encountered. It's quite often overlooked, and can create an issue.


Appreciate the advice. I did use a pick with a makeup mirror to clean out the atmospheric vent, but since i the cv off to fix the boots, these seals were not much and figured why not; if in fact they were failing. In my case the marred surface makes me think it was leaking anyway.
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dobryan Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
A tacky sealant will help keep the cap from popping out, silicone not so much.


The last two rebuilt transmissions I have had (by very experienced rebuilders) both had RTV on the plugs as shown. Ill go by their experience. Not saying that all plugs without the RTV will fail but some do.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

A tacky sealant will help keep the cap from popping out, silicone not so much.
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DCzilla
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

I was able to finish today. Overall take aways are get a gear puller, circlip pliers, and make sure surface is smooth before trying to seat the seal. Unfortunately I was also doing coolant work today and when I turned the van over to add more fluid it started spraying gas from the rail. Looks like I need to replace those lines too.
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dobryan Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

DCzilla wrote:
dobryan wrote:
Take some RTV and smear it around the plastic cap. They are known to leak or fall out.]


Thanks for that tip. Added some rtv, had to grab it at the store since i only have nonsetting Blue.


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Now youre talking.
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'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

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MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
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riceye
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

I had to make a repair involving the plastic caps in the transaxle hubs when I was 1500 miles from home. This transmission is a GoWesty rebuild from back in 2004 or 2005 with about 100,000 miles. I had gear lube weeping though one inner CV, leaving a drip or two when parked.

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I pulled the inner ends of the axles, cleaned, examined the CV's (they were ok - only the passenger side was actually leaking) and packed full of grease (Caterpillar Desert Gold was available and came very highly recommended). I removed the old caps from the hubs, which was surprisingly easy. There was no residue of RTV inside of the hub. I installed the new caps that I was fortunate to find locally (Auto Stop on E Main St in Bozeman, MT. Hats off to them!) and applied a good schmear of RTV to each hub to retain the plugs.

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After the RTV had time to cure I reinstalled the axles. I also took the time to locate and clear out the breather hole at the front of the transaxle. It appears as just a little hole, and if plugged up can generate positive pressure on the case from heat of operation or altitude changes which may, in turn, push the hub plug out of the hub. The hole was full of fine dust and dirt, and I'm pretty sure that it was the cause of the cap dislodging. I used a small wire tie and a vacuum nozzle to clean out, followed by inserting a small rubber hose to draw/blow by mouth to be sure it was clear. Somewhat humbling...

The arrow points to the breather hole in this photo.

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All was well for the trip back home to Wisconsin. I guess the point of my reply is to suggest that the breather hole be checked for obstruction whenever a leak is encountered. It's quite often overlooked, and can create an issue.
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DCzilla
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
Take some RTV and smear it around the plastic cap. They are known to leak or fall out.]


Thanks for that tip. Added some rtv, had to grab it at the store since i only have nonsetting Blue.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

Take some RTV and smear it around the plastic cap. They are known to leak or fall out.

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'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
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DCzilla
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

New seal installed.
1) I did put the one in the freezer overnight...non-conclusive it helped but it was able to get it seated by hand a bit then using the PVC connector drive it into place. I actually forgot to put hylomar on the seal, but figure that wouldn't matter since it was a very tight fit.
2) Getting the circlip into the groove with the wavey washer was a bit of a challenge, especially since the circlip pliers I have are too wide to fit in the inside of the flange and spindle. I got my pliers off amazon and think the OP on this thread had Craftsman. I was able to tap the circlip into place using a flathead and with a few extra taps made sure it was fully seated on the spindle groove.
3) I did put a super small bead of hylomar around the cap and popped that on.
4) When finally taking off the gear oil drain plug I noticed the magnet had snapped off. No idea if that happened inside or not. Couldn't feel anything or see anything. I did replace that with a plug that had a magnet but the threads are a bit off so I'm being careful to not get it seized while also not being too loose.

Finished
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Fully seated oil seal
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Circlip pliers
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PVC Connector
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vanis13
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
vanis13 wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
I now have thanks to ebay the tool that VW designed to do this. It will get into some pretty restricted places.


How about a pic and part number of that one Smile


I just watched Ebay until I saw one that was actually being auctioned and I was able to get it for cheap, something like $12 with shipping.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2...AdAAAAABAD


ah, a 17mm wrench w. a chunk of coupler welded to the box end side.

nice Ebay stalking!

https://shop.snapon.com/product/Transmission-Servi...ench/S5902

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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

vanis13 wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
I now have thanks to ebay the tool that VW designed to do this. It will get into some pretty restricted places.


How about a pic and part number of that one Smile


I just watched Ebay until I saw one that was actually being auctioned and I was able to get it for cheap, something like $12 with shipping.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2...AdAAAAABAD
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vanis13
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
I now have thanks to ebay the tool that VW designed to do this. It will get into some pretty restricted places.


How about a pic and part number of that one Smile
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

This works well for getting at the fill and drain plugs:

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A few more options:

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I now have thanks to ebay the tool that VW designed to do this. It will get into some pretty restricted places.
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vanis13
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Replacing manual transmission drive flange oil seal Reply with quote

DCzilla wrote:
I misused "difficulty" in accessing the fill plug, that was straight forward after dropping the shift linkage.


easier, yes, though these days I get mine out w.the linkage in place so eve easier for checking/topping off.
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