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Campground Tranny rebuild.(a bit long but with pictures)
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itzdshtz
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:03 pm    Post subject: Campground Tranny rebuild.(a bit long but with pictures) Reply with quote

Once a year we come down from Canada in our 1989 Westy and meet up with my sister and brother in law in Deception Pass on Widbey Island, a beautifull area on the Pacific coast of Washington.

We went Island hopping with the bicycles and had a great time, but on the way back to the campground I noticed that the automatic transmission was getting quite a bit noisier in first and second gear and I was wondering if we were going to be able to get back home. (600 miles)

When we entered the camground there was a loud click and that was the end of her, no 1st or 2nd gear and reverse was gone too!

We towed her into our camping spot, got a small tool set out that I always carry in the van, jacked the van up and put some pieces of fire wood under it to support the van from falling on top of me and pulled the back end of the transmission out.

That same night I disassembled it on the picknick table and found that the forward clutch planetary gear had one of the satellite gears fail, it came out in 4 pieces.

Well now what? We decided to look for a transmission shop or wrecking yard the next morning.
Didn't sleep at all that night, the rear end of the van was jacked up so high that we almost ended up on the floor a few times.

Next morning we left early and found a transmission shop, no parts but he told us that if we could come up with the part numbers, he could probably order the new parts.
At least if we couldn't find a tranny, we could get some new parts.

Off we went looking for a wrecking yard, there were two close by, the first one had nothing at all and he told us that there was no chance to find one on the Island and he gave us a phone number of a yard near Seattle that might have a used tranny.

On we went to the last yard and lo and behold there was an Audi 5000 in the yard, and it was an automatic too!
I had been using Audi 5000 Turbo tranny parts to beef up Vanagon transmissions in the past so I knew that I could use this one. It was not the turbo model but that was close enough for me, beggars can't be choosers.

Anyhoo, we pulled the transmission out of the car, paid the 100 bucks that he wanted for it, stopped at Wallmart in Oak Harbour for new oil, shop rags etc. and went back to the campground, happy as pig in shit. Smile

It took us a few hours to get everything back in and she ran like a charm.
When we returned home, I pulled the tranny back out, I had a 4 pinion planetary set on the shelf from an Audi 5000 Turbo, installed it and the 140 mm direct/reverse clutch, checked everything out and swapped the torque converter.
I pull a 18' river boat with the Vanagon and wanted to make sure that this would not happen again!
It's a good thing that there are a lot of Audi's sitting in wrecking yards, the tranny's are very simple and you can repair them without any special tools.

So, if you have an automatic Vanagon, keep an eye out for Audi's in wrecking yards, they can save your bacon and a lot of money.
Herman

Some pictures:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
_________________
1989 Westy
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 M- TDI
1991 Syncro, future 1.9 M- TDI
2005 Audi allroad 4.2
2005 S4
http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02


Last edited by itzdshtz on Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
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BC Westie
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great Story! Glad it all worked out for yah!
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1981 Westfalia 300,000kms
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snoop
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aw, c'mon Herman, a real Sambanista woulda fixed it (it being anything) with bailing wire, duct tape, a pile of twigs from camp and a wad of chewing gum!

Shaw! itzdshtz, that's the shiz! Figure you're carryin' a speck more tools than I..might have to trade in my bailing wire for "a small tool set".

Mmmmaybe...with a lift...and beer...real good IPA...many. Inspiration is what this place is about for me. Thanks for some. Kudos bro.
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r39o
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude, I *AM* impressed!

Having grown up in a family that owned "German Car Repair," I have rebuilt my share of stuff too. Just not a big part of the van while camping!

Good you got home....


Now for the real questions:

Besides what is mentioned, what else from the 5000 Turbo do you use?????

Also, do they have different gear ratios???? Better than the crappy ratios the Vanagon comes with????
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RevKevin
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great story, we took our Vanagon out there for some friends' wedding a few weeks back and you should have heard my GF screaming as we crossed that bridge...
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I normally have the "small tool kit" with me on a journey (well, 50 pounds small), but newspaper, gotta remember the newspaper! "Looking for Part Time Work" indeed!

Good save, Herman.
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zippyslug31
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great story!

You've just described my worse-case nightmare. Campgrounds tend not to have the best selection of mechanics available at your fingertips. Wink

Very impressed that this is something you could do with a small tool kit and just improvising off the wall parts. I wish I had that kind of mastery over my van.

Can I get your number for the next time I go camping?!?!!? Crap, that actually is this coming weekend; sure hope I didn't jinx myself by reading your story! Shocked
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kayakwesty
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you make me sick with your wrench skills...I'm jealous Very Happy
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am very impressed. Are you sure your not African? You would fit right in. Very resourceful.
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kevinbassplayer
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked Put me down as another in the very impressed catagory!
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itzdshtz
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well thanks everybody, itzdshtz when you get stuck like that, really! Crying or Very sad

r39o, almost everything from the turbo tranny will fit in the Vanagon housing, the final drive part is different and you will have to swap out the reverse planetary ring gear hub. The Audi has more splines.

Yeah, the ratio is the same as the 2.1 ltr tranny, 1st- 2.55, 2nd -1.45 and third 1.00, but if you have a 1.9ltr tranny the ratio is 1st -2.71, 2nd- 1.50 and third is 1.00 ,so it will change a bit there.

If you go into your tranny, make sure that you get a newer type diaphragm spring in the forward clutch in there, VW# 010 323 229 D , the older type will break when they get older and your tranny will start to slip.

My tool kit is one of those sets that you can buy at Costco, plastic box that opens up, has both standard and metric wrenches and sockets plus screwdrivers and crescent wrench, a pair of vice grips and a multimeter and yeah, lots of newspaper!

Dogpilot, well it's not Africa but Holland, maybe the finger in the dyke thing has something to do with it, Ha ! Smile

Well, again thanks for your reply everybody and I hope that it never happens to you!

Herman
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1989 Westy
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 M- TDI
1991 Syncro, future 1.9 M- TDI
2005 Audi allroad 4.2
2005 S4
http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bravo! Applause That reminds me of the story my Grandpa used to tell about rebuilding the 5 speed transmission out his Toyota pickup right there in the campground. Thank you for reminding me about my Grandpa. Great man, he was!
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r39o
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Herman,

Thanks for the info. I do have a 1.9 auto in our Westy. I have spare 2.1 auto in my parts van. I guess I will keep my eyes peeled for a 5000T automatic half.

I noticed in the manual that the torque converters have different code letters too. What's up with that?

It is third gear that I have the most issue with. Wonder if a place like Weddle has a longer gear for third?

Reason for my play is the eventual replacement of my engine with something stronger. The 82 hp 1.9 with an automatic in a Westy sure is a slow combination!

Thanks for the parts tips.

-Walter
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itzdshtz
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Walter, the only thing that I know about the torque converters is that they have different stall speeds, I think that the stator blades have a different angle, the 1.9 engine stalls at 1950-2200 rpm and the 2.1 stalls at 2450-2750 rpm.

A different ratio planetary set won't change your top speed, in third gear both sets are locked together so that it acts as a solid shaft from the engine straight through to the differential, the only thing you can change is the ring and pinion.

The tranny's that you have, have a 4.09:1 ratio but if you could get hold of a ring and pinion from a 112hp European model ( Tristar) you could get a 3.74:1 ratio. The tranny code on this one is NJ. This would be ideal for a Subie conversion I think

Herman
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1989 Westy
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 M- TDI
1991 Syncro, future 1.9 M- TDI
2005 Audi allroad 4.2
2005 S4
http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02
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westy81
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow... impressive!

(And I thought I was bad for doing most of my work in a university parking lot)
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Gruppe B
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Herman for the great information for Automatic Vanagon owners.

If the transmissions for the Audi 5000s are the same as the Vanagons is it possible to use the bellhousing from the Audi Transmission on a Vanagon?

I love the Audi 5 cylinder engine and want to find an inexpensive engine swap (relatively inexpensive Confused ) .
If the bellhousing matches up, all I need to do is find a low mileage Audi 5000 and use the whole drivetrain.

Cheers,
Gruppe B
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itzdshtz
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gruppe B, it is the automatic part ( the back end )of the Audi tranny that fits on the Vanagon final drive.

The Audi final drive, the part where the ring and pinion and differential are housed in doesn't have enough room to flip the ring gear to the other side of the pinion to reverse the rotation, so you end up with 3 reverse gears and one forward gear. It would work if you install a mid engine in the vanagon, but not with the engine in the rear.

I like the 5 cyl Audi engines too but they will only fit if you use a South African bell-housing or an adapter plate from say Kennedy engineering, unfortunately they are a bit pricey but the good part is that the engines are really cheap and easy to get.

Cheers Herman
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1989 Westy
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 M- TDI
1991 Syncro, future 1.9 M- TDI
2005 Audi allroad 4.2
2005 S4
http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02
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camrenj
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there any other type of vw auto tranny that will work other than a audi 5000/5000t. I can get a hold of 88 automatic cabriolet for free. I wanted to know if I could use that for a doner car Pray
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itzdshtz
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi camrenj, yes parts of this tranny are usable for a Vanagon.
The gear ratio's are the same as the 1.9 ltr and air cooled Vanagon, it has less plates in there and the housing does not have an oil cooler.
It is the 010 tranny and was in Golfs and Jetta's from 1985 - 1992
The final drive of this transmission is totally different and won't fit.
So, you could only use some parts of it for a Vanagon and it is not a complete replacement. Sad

Herman
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1989 Westy
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 M- TDI
1991 Syncro, future 1.9 M- TDI
2005 Audi allroad 4.2
2005 S4
http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02
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itzdshtz
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here some pictures of the improved Forward Clutch diaphragm spring.

If you have your tranny apart, make sure that you have the newer diaphragm spring, shown on the right, in there.
The lower diaphragm spring is broken and caused the clutch pack to slip and burn.

The right part number is on the plastic bag, labelled as "lockwasher."Ha!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1989 Westy
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 M- TDI
1991 Syncro, future 1.9 M- TDI
2005 Audi allroad 4.2
2005 S4
http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02


Last edited by itzdshtz on Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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