Yet Another FAILED Attempt on Brake Bleeding.

[kevinh94]

Ok guys I suck at brakes.

I have new likes and front wheel cylinders, and REAR rubber lines. I have NOT replaced the front.

Oh this is a 63 Bug Sedan.

I bought a bleeder vacuum and still nothing. I have rebuilt the master I have teflon/plumbers tape on ALL my connections. I got the thing tagged and I CAN"T DRIVE IT!

I didn't bench bleed the Master so maybe I need to but guys I don't know what else to do?

Could the front rubber lines be old enough to let air in?

I have gotten a new reservoir to master seal. The little three-way on the rear was cleaned thoroughly and I made all my own bends and I KNOW I didn't crimp or hurt any of the lines.

This summer if I have the dough I am going to try and install new pans so should I just use the e-brake , it works .

I have done it, it isn't all that dangerous. Just a little more to keep you occupied. If you want to try something interesting try using the e-brake.

NO my e-brake don't work. For some reason I can get it to click when you pull it up. I haven't take it apart yet to see what is wrong.
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[Eric&Barb]

Try bleeding the system with an assistant pumping the brake pedal. Due to the design of the slave cylinder seals, using a vaccum bleeder you might just be sucking air into the system past these seals.
As for bench bleeding the master cylinder all you need to do is remove one of the out going lines from the MC, and have your assistant push down on the brake pedal. Once the pedal is down, put your finger over the outlet hole to seal it and have your assitant let up on the pedal so the brake fluid gets sucked into the MC. Repeat till you get brake fluid to come out of the hole. Have your assistant not slam brake pedal down while doing this or you might end up with a face full of brake fluid.
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[boogerbandit04]

X2

I second the assistant method. I tired it with a vacume bleeder and it didnt really work out so well. I bleed the WHOLE system with the assistant in about 40min.
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1964 Type 1
1200cc
STOCK

[Air-Cooled Head]

I'll second the second on that.
I've tried the Mighty Vac, the expensive sucker thingy, and pressure bleeders.

NOTHING works like the 2 person method, in my opinion.
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[Cusser]

Plumber's PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene of "teflon") tape is only to seal PIPE threads, and these brake systems use flared ends to make the seals. In other words, if you "need" to try a sealing tape, then something else is wrong. I think you first need to adjust all the brake shoes, all around (maybe that's the issue with the hand brake). And try 2-man bleeding, post back whether it works or whether any brake fluid actually gets pumped out through the bleed screws when open. You might have air before your master cylinder, or in your master cylinder, and they are designed to pump liquids, not air.
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[kevinh94]

Guys I have bled the system with vacuum pump, with a helper, and NOTHING.

It don't make sense, I have somewhere or the master still isn't getting pressure.

I don't know?

I am about ready to take it to the V-Dub guy in town.

Last night I pulled fluid to each cylinder and I still had no pressure. I then tried opening the bleeder valve, and having the assistant push the pedal and hold. I then screwed it back and they let it out.

I got some pedal, then I had them pump and build pressure, SLOWLY, and bled each wheel.

I got nothing.

It actually got worse, I was told. I don't know. I am about fed up with the thing, because it is tagged and I CAN'T DRIVE IT!

I will drive it without electrical but I don't like to without the brakes working. I will drive it with the e-brake but still I don't like to.
_________________
Low and Slow is the only way to go!!!

[kevinh94]

[Zundfolge1432]

ok go full circle and start over again


Adjust all shoes to a slight drag and close all bleeders

Fill the reservior and make sure its unobstructed flow to M/C

Start with wheel furthest away thats passenger rear have them pump slowly 5 times and hold, you loosen the bleeder and they continue to hold pedal goes to floor they continue hold and you tighten the bleeder.

Go to next furthest wheel drivers rear and bleed this

Go to passenger frnt and bleed

Go to drivers frnt and bleed


You may go round and round and consume a bottle or more filling a dry system but like anything else their is a method or program you must follow .... If you skip any of these steps you'll fail

Most commonly failure to bleed is caused by shoes not adjusted to slight drag and or brake pedal pushrod adjustment has too much slack
not allowing a full stroke to expell all the air....

Loose the teflon tape and ck all the joints but dont overtighten
Flex lines usually deteriorate from the inside and collapse which interferes with bleeding because they act like a check valve restricting flow in one direction..... Your 63 is single circuit very simple just follow the program

[Eric&Barb]

Make sure and tell us if this is a single circuit MC you are dealing with. There is always the chance it is a dual circuit which requires a differant bleeding proceedure.
As for the E-brake, you should loosen the cable nuts a bit. Then pull out the push button and rod. Note direction rod MUST be installed so convex side of bend faces downward. While this is out you can use a flashlight to look indie the E-brake handle at the pivoting pawl down in there. See how the curved/domed end of the pawl fits into the road from the button, and at same time engages the lower E-brake rachet gear. Then slide back in the push button and its rod and while pushing a bit on the button. While lifting the E-brake handle up enough so the pawl is just above the rachet gear. Then with a thin screw driver and your fingers flip the pawl so it fits the rod curve, push the knob in so it engages the pawl, and lower the E-brake handle just so the pawl will engage the rachet gear when you let up on the button. Push in the knob again and lower the E-brake handle. You always want to fully adjust the rear brake stars so the brake shoes are close to the drums. Then and only then adjust the E-brake cables tight so you do not go above 5 clicks on the handle. Anytime it goes above five clicks you want to readjust the brakes and then cables as needed.
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[kevinh94]

[Cusser]

Note for all plumbing: PTFE or teflon tape is for pipe threads ONLY, which taper slightly larger as one screws it in. Not for use with flare fittings, flared connections, swaged ferrules (such as with home plumbing or gas chromatography). Now, PTFE on the threads of nuts that hold a flare in place may help prevent galling or corrosion if one really has that problem, but not on the sealing surface itself.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[pacificbikerguy]

it's a pain, but if you haven't already MAKE SURE your front to rear line is not rusted and leaking on the inside of the car. Also, as much as a pain as it is, make sure your rear wheel cylinders are in good shape.

both of these have bitten me a few times!

[my59]

check to see if the T fitting at the rear is X threaded- its brass and a lot softer than the lines connected to it.
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[sbnova]

I always had an easier time pushing fluid vs sucking it. I use a large medical syringe full of brake fluid with a small hose to attach to the back of the bleeder. Loosen the bleeder, and push fluid in slowly until it comes out the master/reservoir clear without bubbles. Start at the farthest wheel just as you would when conventional bleeding.
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[dan macmillan]

Correct me if I am wrong about the position of your front wheel cylinders.
I have 2 1966 chassis and they are like this.
They are mounted on their sides along the rear side of the front backing plates. This creates a problem in that they retain an air pocket under the upper sealing cup. You have to remove the backing plates bolts and turn them so the wheel cylinder is at the top and sitting horizontal. temporarily slip the drum over the shoes to limit their travel and stop them from popping. Bleed the master as previously mentioned, or you can make plugs to completely seal the ports. Pump slowly until you have a hard pedal with very limitted travel {This is a proven method for bench bleeding. The air will exit out the intake ports.} Reattatch the lines and start your bleeding from the furthest cylinder to the closest from the master. RR, LR, RF, LF. Reinstall your front plates and rotors.

Tip, instead of the old pump/hold/open bleeder/ close bleeder method, it is easier and faster to attatch a rubber hose to the bleeder. Stick the hose into a bottle with about a 1/2 inch of brake fluid in the bottom. Open the bleeder and pump until you see no air bubbles in the bottle. Keep an eye on the mater resevoir level. Close the bleeder and move on to the next one. One of those kids glasses with the built in straw {moulded into the side} works great for this.

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[KTPhil]

I have always had air get sucked back in when I leave the bleeder bolt loose and let the pedal up. The mitivac suction method also gets air from there. Some use teflon tape to seal it, but I'm afraid a piece will get loose and gum up a port.

The idea of a pressure bleeder is that there is never vacuum in the circuit, so a loose bleeder bolt will lose fluid, not suck air. I rigged one up, and it got it started, but the only way that worked to expel all the air was the two-person press/hold/bleed/tighten/release/repeat method.

[mailman]

[[email protected]]

I have posted this at least a dozen times, YOU CAN NOT USE A VACUUM BLEEDER ON AN AIRCOOLED VW WITH DRUM BRAKES DUE TO THE DESIGN OF THE WHEEL CYLINDERS. Take one apart, look at it, and you'll see why.


you either have to pressure bleed or pump bleed.

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
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[kidkong]

If you,re not getting air out of the line when you bleed the system then I would look a buying a MC. Rebuilding is ok but for the cost of a new one,why bother?Also, try adjusting the shoes too tight. Adjusting the shoes "till there is a slight drag" can mean different things to different folks. Good luck...................and don't be driving around with just an E brake

[Eric&Barb]