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kayakmaster
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:01 am    Post subject: Suby Conversion guys Question Reply with quote

Merry christmas, I have a question about sensors and engine warning lights. Am I to understand that these lights are on all the time or is it just trouble codes when you plug your engine into a diagnostic reader.
If your check engine light is on at all times, how do you know if you truely have a problem with your engine.
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VisPacem
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Suby Conversion guys Question Reply with quote

kayakmaster wrote:
Merry christmas, I have a question about sensors and engine warning lights. Am I to understand that these lights are on all the time or is it just trouble codes when you plug your engine into a diagnostic reader.
If your check engine light is on at all times, how do you know if you truely have a problem with your engine.


Hello Jack

I am not sure what you exactly include in "sensors and engine lightS", however I can tell you that my "Check engine" light was ON all the time and that I disconnected it. As I do not like "modern" cars and being very hostile to electronics in cars, of the many cars I ever owned few had that "check engine" light and I never missed it. I never had an engine problem that was not indicated by the basic instruments: oil pressure, water temperature, ammeter. Being, by formation, concerned with specific documented facts more than general, not established presumption, the check engine light only tells me to check the engine (???) which I do routinely anyway.

LG aka VisPacemPB

1989 Carat Automatic.2.2 Subaru OBDI
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vwsyncroguy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:17 am    Post subject: CEL and trouble codes Reply with quote

The original KEP "Executive Order" approved by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) permitted three codes to be present for the 90-94, OBD-I engines and still get approval. These OBD-I codes are 33, 51, and 52, which were generated from items on the original Subaru but not present when the engine is installed in a Vanagon.....but deemed to not have any smog related function.

One of these codes (#33) is for a speed sensor, which Kennedy (KEP) did not install on his van at the time he got his executive order, but probably should be on every conversion. The other two are (#51) from the neutral position switch (manual tranny) or the transmission inhibitor switch (auto tranny). The third, (#52) is from the parking brake switch.

All of these codes can be easily eliminated so that the diagnostic function of the OBD-I system works as intended. Some people do not eliminate them and just have a switch on the check engine light and turn it on occasionally to check for any other codes or if they are having some problem.

The OBD-II diagnostic system has several more sensors for items that are very difficult to transfer from the Subaru to the Vanagon. This is one of the reasons that getting OBD-II conversions approved in CA is difficult.

These sensors are also for functions which do not effect the proper running of the engine, but will generate the code anyway due to the missing sensor. Most of them are sensors in the Subaru gas tank,.... for fuel tank pressure, temperature, purge valve solenoid, and level change, plus sensors to detect the mal function of the Suby electric radiator cooling fans which are not transferred to the Vanagon. (Sorry, can't remember the numbers of these codes by heart)

It's also possible to make a circuit board that will send the expected signal to the ECU to eliminate these known codes. Smallcar Performance sells one that works pretty well.

The OBD-II engines, however, MUST HAVE, a speed sensor for the engine to run properly.

So some people use these methods to eliminate the codes or they keep a list of the standard "expected" codes and a switch on the CEL to check for any unexpected ones when they want/need to .

Warren C.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's important to keep in mind that OBD was mandated by EPA to be installed on all US-market cars in order to keep tabs on the emissions systems. As such its purpose isn't as an engine maintenance reminder or performance monitor but instead it's just there to monitor emissions controls so they will be properly maintained. When you look at it in this light many of the things it monitors such as fuel tank vapor sealing, etc., make more sense, as they haven't anything to do with engine performance but much to do with total vehicle emissions (fuel evaporate is one of the major contributors to ground-level smog in urban areas, for instance). So getting an OBD system to work in an earler non-OBD vehicle like the Vanagon is just to keep the air quality refs happy, and has much less to do with actual engine performance.
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16CVs
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I have just installed a 2.2 conversion take out from a crashed van. It is running and I now understand why so many people have done this.
Most of it is spot on. I have installed a G.W. VSS ,but still have codes causing a CEL (Check Engine Light) . Someone mentioned that Small Car had a box to break out the codes ,but it is for 96 and newer OBD II set ups .
So I have 2 questions , what is the info needed to satisfy the codes ? Is there some Pos or Neg signal that we can supply to those open wires to satisfy the CEL ? I realize that they are allowed ,I just do not like looking at the light and it would be nice to have it come on when a new problem arises .
Can a Cruise signal be gotten from the G.W. VSS along side the signal for the ECU .
I have searched the forums and have not seen answers to these questions . So if you know or can direct somewhere I can get these questions answered it will be appreciated .
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What codes are you getting?
The 2 codes that are allowed won't trip the CEL.
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16CVs
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am trying to learn how to read the blinking light . I have a Computer hook up for it ,but will have Seth show me how to read them at S.F. I tried counting the lights and it looked like 5 fast / 2 slow --- 3 fast 2 slow . That is really a WAG .
I know you had said you were able to isolate them ,and I was going to pick your brain at S.F.
If you have any suggestions as to how to read the codes ,I am all ears .

Stacy
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AKWesty
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stacy, here are some resources i use for my EJ22.

http://www.4bc.org/vanagon/codes.html

http://www.troublecodes.net/Subaru/

http://www.weidefamily.net/vanagon/HTML/05/01/01/03.html

Your code of 3 long and 2 short is code 32. That is a code I am familiar with. It is your O2 sensor. Time for a new one. The code 52 may go away when you replace your O2 sensor and the computer resets the light.

Post if you have more questions. Tom Shiels built my harness and I have learned a lot from him on reading the OBD1 codes
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Each of the slow blinks count as 10 and each of the fast blinks count as 1.
It looks like you are showing the codes for 23 and 25.
It is odd that you don't show 51 & 52, unless you guys went through the trouble to wire it up to get rid of them.
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16CVs
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Guys

So I will re visit the codes. Will it run each code (Fast /slow) and just keep doing them in a loop ? So if there are 3 codes ,when you get the same code twice it just cycling ?
I had another member send me a Website for a signal generator that should make the ECU think it is always going about 40 MPH ,and eliminate the dying at stop signs and coming off the freeway .

Stacy
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levi
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it keeps generating the codes in a loop.

If I remember correctly you need to bring the engine rpm up to at least 2,000 for 60 seconds or so, and then read the codes, not just start up and read the codes.
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Syncrozilla
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

levi wrote:
Yes it keeps generating the codes in a loop.

If I remember correctly you need to bring the engine rpm up to at least 2,000 for 60 seconds or so, and then read the codes, not just start up and read the codes.


That's not true. You don't even need to start the engine to read the stored memory. Just connect the black connectors and turn on the ignition.

Another thing to remember though is that stored codes don't always go away on their own. Sometimes you will need to unplug the ecu and leave it sit overnight. Some of them seem to be reset more easily than others in my experience.
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AKWesty
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your green connectors are your test connectors and by connecting these you will read the current codes your ECU is faulting. You have to plug up the green connectors and then start the engine. After the engine has run for 45 seconds at 2000 rpm the ECU will generate current code faults and display in the flashing sequence. If the ECU detects more than one problem it will flash them one after the other. The long flashs come first then the short. 10's place then the 1's place. If you get 3 long and 2 short then your code is 32. If it then flashes 5 long and 1 short then you are getting code 51 etc. Yes they will continue to flash in a loop. It may continue to show one code over and over or 2, 3, 4 in a row and then show them in a loop.

The black connectors are your memory codes. To read these you do not start the engine. You plug up the black connectors and turn the engine to the on position without starting. All codes your ECU has detected or faulted since the last time you manually cleared the code (see clearing memory codes in the links I sent last post) will flash. You may have already fixed and or replaced the sensor that the code is flashing here. You have to go through the steps detailed in the sequence of "clearing codes". Some will disconnect the battery to clear. This does not work for my ECU. It keeps the codes even with out battery power. To clear historic codes I have to follow instructions provided in the links. Once clear you will get 4 short blinks in a loop giving you the "all clear".

Remember when checking your codes the long flashes come first then the short flashes. In your email you have given the sequence with short first then long. Make sure you read up on the email links and watch for long first and then short pulses followed by a short interval before it starts over.

On the problem with the van stalling and creating a generator to fool the ECU into the van staying at 40 mph....that is the purpose of the Hall Effect Speed Sensor. I thought I read in you installed the GW VSS. If you have this VSS wired into your ECU then this problem should not be there. That is its purpose. With it hooked up properly you should have a high idle when you drive to a stop and a delay before it idles down in a long stop scenario. It sounds like there may be a problem in your harness wiring if you have your speed sensor hooked up to the speed sensor lead on your harness.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same stalling issue. Had the SC VSS installed and codes 51 and 52 showing. Got rid of those two codes and stalling has never come back. I posted the fix on here and the Vanagon Subaru Yahoo group. It involved tying into the parking brake circuit with some diodes and a relay to invert the signals. $10 in parts.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MR Geodude

I am working on your fix, in the mean time I am trying to get rid of my CEL ,I've read the code and checked it twice. 35 is purge valve located under the intake manifold. There is no ohm's reading on it ,DOA !
Just getting to it is a chore ,has anyone been through this .According to some info I found on line it looks like the hoses are reversed. Would the hoses being reversed make this thing die at an early age ?
Has anyone taken one apart and cleaned it or is it just replacement time.
I will just replace it ,but am always curious what can and can not be fixed

Stacy
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wcdennis
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just went through this same code 35 issue on my '91 2.2 conversion. That little purge valve is buried in a place that makes it a huge pain to replace. The error code is thrown by the coil burning out, which you confirmed with the 0 ohm measurement. There is no way to fix this part. Having the hoses reversed would not cause early failure.
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16CVs
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what I'd thought .Now its off to Subaru I go .


Stacy
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kalispell365
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

16CV's wrote:
That's what I'd thought .Now its off to Subaru I go .


Stacy


Part number is 14774aa351, a wobble extension is your friend on this one! They commonly burn out, and I believe it is because of the vapors gumming up the solenoid, causing the solenoid to lock up/ burn out. Another easy way to diagnose these is to connect the green check connectors and turn on the ignition. you can then listen to the solenoid with either a screwdriver or stethoscope and if it does not audibly "click" on and off it is bad.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: 2.2 Subaru purge Reply with quote

That's the best description I've heard yet . I think I am going to leave the old valve there and just find a new place to mount the new valve .
When I take my van to the Vanagon / Subaru Swap Concourse I may worry about it then .
Until then the Bastard I drive will just have another PO modification done to it .

Stacy
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1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
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