Earliest known cars

[50 split]

From thesamba.com:

Start of production for Type 3 models
28 April, 1961 - 1500 Sedan (Notchback)
Start of production with chassis # 0 000 001

29 September, 1961 - Karmann-Ghia Razor-Edge
Start of production with chassis # 0 000 269

15 December, 1961 - Variant
Start of production with chassis# 0 006 827

From the type 3 registry:

1. 000001x 1961 Notchback/Sedan USA-California
2. 000005x 1961 Notchback/Sedan USA-California
(These 2 first cars are considered as mule´s, as they are so early people say these normally shuld not have hit the market) But, the next 4 known cars:
3. 000127x 1961 Notchback/Sedan USA-Arizona
4. 000221x 1961 Notchback/Sedan Germany
5. 000234x 1961 Notchback/Sedan USA-Texas
6. 000274x 1961 Notchback/Sedan Germany


type 34 Ghia as well, it is:

1. 000177x 1962 Karmann Ghia/T34 USA-California
2. 000291x 1962 Karmann Ghia/T34 UK-England
3. 000423x 1962 Karmann Ghia/T34 South Africa
4. 000729x 1962 Karmann Ghia/T34 Sweden


And then again the Variant/sqb

(not listed in the type 3 registry but known by me):
"0". 0055xxx 1962 Variant Europe
1. 006952x 1962 Squareback/Variant USA-California
2. 007078x 1962 Squareback/Variant USA-California
3. 0098xxx 1962 Squareback/Variant AU-Queensland
4. 010375x 1962 Squareback/Variant Sweden (my car)

This is the only press picture from 61 were the variant is shown:

this is one of the first press pictures from 62(note the white steerwheel):

This is a canadian price list from 22/12 61 (they started the Variant/sqb production in dec 61)

a 61 brochure:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/literature61.php



As far as I understand, the type3 chassis numbers is an ongoing current number series, so for example, 6827 is a Variant, 6828 is a Type 34 and 6829 is a Notchback.


If so, why did the type 3 registry list the notches as 1961, but the ghias as 1962?

What I´m confused about is that no early Variant semes to survived today, not in the registry at least.
Why is that? Did Volkswagen start the variant production in dec 61 and then took a pause? Why are no early cars known to exist today?
_________________
#Sawmillcollection
Kübel: 43 w Pepco
type 1: 50, 51 (kab), 51, 52(zwitt), 56, 57, 58, 60, 60, 61, 63, 63, 64, 65, 72
type 2: 51, 54 Taxi (H-O -26), 54, 56, 58, 65 (Fridge), 67(bay) 68, 68, 70, 70 (Burnt westy), 70 westy,71 westy 72, 73, 73, 75, 96, 96 Carthago, 01 Syncro , 2017
type 3 N: 62, 63 V: 62, 66, 67, 67, 68, F: 66 (Teak), 67
Type 4 2 door 71
Tempo: Matador 50(oldest)
Porsche: 356 65, 924 78
Anhänger:
Eriba Puck 65
Alfredo 59
Trailer Fickers So22, 65
Trailer 60

[Bobnotch]

Month of production sets the year. August starts the new model year.
April 61 for the Notch. is 1961 model
September 61 For the T-34 Ghia is 1962 model
December 61 for the Variant is 1962 model

As for why no early Squares are around, keep in mind that the Square was more of a utility vehicle, and panel van Squares were included into the total. Some of those were used for delivering small parts or items, or even eggs back in the day (or in Mike's case even today). But since they were used for hauling stuff, they were very used, sometimes not as nicely as other vehicles. I know I probably misused and abused my own Square (both of them) , as I used them hard and put them away wet on more than 1 occasion.
I hope this helps.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[50 split]

Another odd thing. It says Variant started 15 dec at chassis# 0 006 827

BUT:

Each chassis number is the last vehicle produced in that month.


Nov 0 007 184
Dec 0 011 041

What am I missing?
Did they start 15 nov at 6827? or, was the variant with ch number 6827 taken of production line for some unknown reason for a month?


I think the answer regarding "company truck" and hard used with not much TLC might be correct, in some cases, but other "used the car only as family car to church on sundays"... And there shuld be known some or one or 2 -early- variants. (with less than ch number #0010000 or #0020000) if we compare early notch and early type34. But, not a trace of any variant known less with than ~0055000
_________________
#Sawmillcollection
Kübel: 43 w Pepco
type 1: 50, 51 (kab), 51, 52(zwitt), 56, 57, 58, 60, 60, 61, 63, 63, 64, 65, 72
type 2: 51, 54 Taxi (H-O -26), 54, 56, 58, 65 (Fridge), 67(bay) 68, 68, 70, 70 (Burnt westy), 70 westy,71 westy 72, 73, 73, 75, 96, 96 Carthago, 01 Syncro , 2017
type 3 N: 62, 63 V: 62, 66, 67, 67, 68, F: 66 (Teak), 67
Type 4 2 door 71
Tempo: Matador 50(oldest)
Porsche: 356 65, 924 78
Anhänger:
Eriba Puck 65
Alfredo 59
Trailer Fickers So22, 65
Trailer 60

[EverettB]

I agree with you it's strange no super early Variant has ever been found.

I do think there has to be someone out there who bought one and didn't use it much or only as a small family vehicle.

My '63 is like that. They bought a Variant because they needed to haul a small boat motor that wouldn't fit in a Notchback.

I also agree they were often used as small commercial or delivery vehicles so a lot of them were "lost" to usage, similar to commercial Buses.

I can't explain the VIN discrepancy either.
Maybe the factory had all of the Variants pulled aside and they got finished later in the year because they were a "new" car.
This is just a total guess but I have seen this done with other VWs that took more time for some reason - Ambulances or special order Buses.
_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[50 split]

I dont think they held them a side like SO cars or ambulance, due to, this is more of a normal production car than the ambo or SO busses.

Maybe they had problem with the metal pressing for the special Variant stuff (which I dont find likeley) or maybbe the engine ran hot while testing or such, why they stopped Variant from the productionline, until the problem was solved.

Maybe a guy like Björn Scheve or other at Volkswagen could research production figures of the Variant, from the first one, and all month the whole 1962?
I´m thinking, vw have much documentation, and this kind of numebrs, they shuld have had back in the days, and in archives these days. Maybe also were they delivered cars, country by country?
_________________
#Sawmillcollection
Kübel: 43 w Pepco
type 1: 50, 51 (kab), 51, 52(zwitt), 56, 57, 58, 60, 60, 61, 63, 63, 64, 65, 72
type 2: 51, 54 Taxi (H-O -26), 54, 56, 58, 65 (Fridge), 67(bay) 68, 68, 70, 70 (Burnt westy), 70 westy,71 westy 72, 73, 73, 75, 96, 96 Carthago, 01 Syncro , 2017
type 3 N: 62, 63 V: 62, 66, 67, 67, 68, F: 66 (Teak), 67
Type 4 2 door 71
Tempo: Matador 50(oldest)
Porsche: 356 65, 924 78
Anhänger:
Eriba Puck 65
Alfredo 59
Trailer Fickers So22, 65
Trailer 60

[bad1916]

I would agree that VW has to have lots of information on production numbers. Since they have the info for the birth certificates I’m sure they could provide lots of information but it would require lots of manpower. I’m into classic Mustangs and Ford gave/sold their info in 1967 up Mustangs(1965-6 were destroyed in a flood I believe) to Kevin Marty. What is good about that it Marty will give you detailed info on production numbers including how many were built with your color combo. It dies have drawbacks in that they will tell someone it’s a 1 of 1 car because of some odd option. But it is a nice reference and would be cool to see VW offer something similar
_________________
SEMPER PARATUS!
1963 SQUAREBACK

[Lee Hedges]

Great discussion getting new thoughts about the earliest Type 3 models!

I've been managing the Early Variant Registry for a couple years now. We have a database with 64 registered by their chassis numbers between 1962-63. The earliest is #0 023 115 but there are only nine 1962 models & 55 from 1963. By comparison, the T34 World database has 158 T34s from 1962 alone!

Oldest known Notchback is #0 000 010.
Oldest known T34 is #0 001 200.
The oldest known Variant is #0 023 115.

I also found it interesting that we have not yet discovered any Variants earlier than 23K. My gut says it's a combination of low production (possibly due to cooling issues) and more commonly abused more than the Notch & T34 models.

I would be very interested in any person at VW Germany that can take the time to research the early Type 3 production details & provide answers.

[50 split]

Nice! Were/how to find that registry?

I did'nt know such an early car as ch number 23.000.
Thats good news! Were is that one located and in what kind of condition?
_________________
#Sawmillcollection
Kübel: 43 w Pepco
type 1: 50, 51 (kab), 51, 52(zwitt), 56, 57, 58, 60, 60, 61, 63, 63, 64, 65, 72
type 2: 51, 54 Taxi (H-O -26), 54, 56, 58, 65 (Fridge), 67(bay) 68, 68, 70, 70 (Burnt westy), 70 westy,71 westy 72, 73, 73, 75, 96, 96 Carthago, 01 Syncro , 2017
type 3 N: 62, 63 V: 62, 66, 67, 67, 68, F: 66 (Teak), 67
Type 4 2 door 71
Tempo: Matador 50(oldest)
Porsche: 356 65, 924 78
Anhänger:
Eriba Puck 65
Alfredo 59
Trailer Fickers So22, 65
Trailer 60

[Bobnotch]

Wouldn't some of this info be available on the 1500 club web site? Or is it no longer up. I know they accumulated a lot of info dedicated to the early cars.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[AnttiTapio]

Hi!

I have a car number 1744. The car is in Finland and registered for use on November 26, 1961.

[Erik G]

[pedro sainz]

[AnttiTapio]

The pictures are bad. The car has not been driven since 1980. The car has been repaired over the years but should be restored to its original condition in the future.

[ibjack]