Where to get this Ghia Convertible Top Rivet?

[sputnick60]

I figure it's better to source a replacement before I drill the pair of 'em out.
Does anyone know where to get a replacement for this type of rivet? I've only seen it on cabrios in the spot shown in the picture...

It looks like an exotic type of pop rivet ....but I haven't seen the type anywhere else nor know what name it would have in an engineering catalog.
Suggestions?

BTW what's the proper name for that part of the car? If it was the top of a door or guard it'd be easy to describe. Surely our language has something better than "the hooziwhazit" or "whatyamacallit".

Thanks
Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[crocteau]

I think it's called "da kine." There was thread here about the snap rivets awhile back. It was possible to get some free samples from a fastener company. See http://www.itw-fastex.com/catalog/index.php/dw/op/...236-220604. It'll probably cost more to send them down under than they're worth. If you can't find them locally PM me.
Charley

[denizen224]

As Charlie notes, ISTR these are snap rivets. You should be able to pop them apart then back together again. I'm pretty sure that's all I did on mine, tho' that was a loooong time ago. Drilling them out shouldn't be necessary.

I just cleaned mine up and hit them with a little chrome paint, they came out pretty well.
_________________
Mr. Bill

[coad]

McMaster-Carr sells them. Search for Dovetail Shank rivets.

http://www.mcmaster.com/

[sputnick60]

I appreciate your informative responses. Thanks Guys. Now I know what to call them. So I'll try lifting them off with a blade first and then I'll look in some engineering catalogs to find them. I'll keep you all posted on what gets a result.

Thanks again
Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[lajs57]

I took the rivets apart last night from my 59. There are 3 pieces per side, check the pictures below. To disassemble it you need to pull the cover out, the rivet head in that side is like a flower, so when you pull the cover it closes and eventually the cover will be released. Then the tip of the rear piece needs to be worn until it releases, I used a drill bit to carefully do that. I have not tried to put it back together, but it wont be easy as the tip may not have a good hold, the best will be to get a new set (or at least replace the rear piece).
I Googled trying to find it without luck. Does anybody know where to get such a rivet? May be our friends from Europe can help, as it may be a german supplier and the web page in is german?

[sputnick60]

I found it in my ghia parts book where it is called a tubular rivet. Why didn't I look there sooner? It's such a tiny picture one can't tell what it is. But these photos from Lajs57 are great!

Yesterday I tried lifting the back part up but without success. i was damaging it, so I stopped. Maybe I'll copy you and attempt from the other side and see what result I get.

Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[crocteau]

[lajs57]

I also found the part number in my 61 parts book but none of the vendors carry it, as far as I know.

Another thing is that in your picture the rivet also holds a hard plastic part besides the rubber end and the cap is black. In early Ghias I believe that plastic piece was not used, so may be the size and type of your rivet is different.

Does any body knows when that hard plastic cover was introduced?

[lajs57]

[crocteau]

[lajs57]

[BeaterBarndoor]

this may help out, they are called rapidrivets. there are other names for various styles but what you show is similar to these. maybe do some google searches for the exact ones.
http://www.eleathersupply.com/fasteners.shtml
_________________
www.thebustransfer.com

Whaaaaat?

[RCTScott]

Hello,

I have been tracking down several modern day options to replace this ominous rivet on my ‘67 vert. So far I am certain that it has a finished head of approximately 12.8mm or 1/2” and a stem that only needs to be long enough to go through about 3mm of material, with an unfinished backing. There are true tubular rivets available on the market, however with a head that wide, they come with a very long and wide stem. I have found far better options of a Double Cap Snap, Jiffy Rivets, Rapid rivets, or even simply installing a snap cap backed by a washer instead of an actual snap. I even went to ITW Fastex and acquired some samples of the plastic snap rivets that Charley was talking about. Thank you Charley for the specifics on that.

But I have run into some confusion about the color of the head of the rivet. Nicholas shows a picture of a black head but lajas57 shows a dissected rivet with a silver head. I have two other email friends with convertible Ghias and they too give differing color opinions about the color of the head of their rivets. I am wondering if it changed through the years. Or possibly lost the black coating over time. So before I posted my best option for this rivet, I was wondering if anyone has a definitive answer on the color of the head of the rivet?

Thank you!

Scott

[crocteau]

[theghiagirl]

1964 convertible rivet with half inch diameter head. This is on an original paint unrestored car.

1958 convertible rivet with half inch diameter head.

[RCTScott]

Since my last posting several incredible people have helped me through private mail (Crocteau, Sputnick60, Rcooled, Jerry Heldt, Mike and a couple of very helpful leather-smiths) and I think I have found what I would consider the ideal replacement for this rivet. I must admit that there are a lot of options out there, so hopefully I will help clarify the differences in case anyone is interested. After all, this is a rivet which probably varied from time to time based upon what the technician had in the box to use at the time of assembly. And since it is the only use of such a rivet on the car, we don't really know what the exact finish and color looked like when it was new. Most contributors have noted that this was a black rivet, whereas a couple have noted that on their car it was a silver rivet. Also, one contributor of an original car has a rivet that was originally a silver rivet and not just a black rivet where the black finish has worn off. So here is an assembly of all the good candidates:

1) Steel Black Speedy/Compression Rivets CR-DCSR12SBL
Jay-Cee Sales and Rivet, Inc, www.rivetsonline.com
13mm Dia Caps X 12mm Stem Length X 4mm Dia Stem
2) Brass Nickel Plated Speed Rivets CR-DCSR12SBN
Jay-Cee Sales and Rivet, Inc, www.rivetsonline.com
13mm Dia Caps X 12mm Stem Length X 4mm Dia Stem
3) Steel-Black Plated Single Capped Compression/Speedy Rivets CR-DCSR80SBL
Jay-Cee Sales and Rivet, Inc, www.rivetsonline.com
(Cap 13mm X 9mm length, Mate 17mm length stem X 6mm Dia)
4) Steel-Nickle Plated Compression/Speedy Rivets CR-DCSR80SN Jay-Cee Sales and Rivet, Inc, www.rivetsonline.com
(Cap 13mm X 9mm length, Mate 17mm length stem X 6mm Dia)
5) Wide Double Cap Rivets 1371-81
Tandy Leather Factory www.tandyleather.com
(Small (8mm stem), Medium (10mm stem) and Large (12mm stem)
available) Finish shown is Black plate, but Gun Metal Matte also available
which is similar to option #1.
6) Jiffy Rivets Solid Brass Black 618S-SBBK
Ohio Travel Bag www.Ohiotravelbag.com
(Cap 13mm X 9mm length, Mate 17mm length stem X 6mm Dia)
7) Snap Rivets (Thank you Charley!) Cap: 236 220603 10 0101 Natural & Back: 236 220604 00 0101 Natural
Fastex www.itw-fastex.com
Cap is 0.625" Diameter and Back is 0.425" Diameter (Needs larger hole and are made out of Nylon, non-metal)
8) MAXI SNAP standard length 24 line CAPS Colored enamel over solid Brass
EBay asupersupply
Cap diameter of just under 5/8”, post length of almost ¼"
9) Chicago Screw Black 1290-04
Tandy Leather Factory www.tandyleather.com
Cap Dia 10.73mm X 7mm stem length, Back Dia 10.73mm X 7mm stem length


Now from the above list and image, the best candidates that are close to the original cap width of 12.85mm and stem length within compressible reason are the finalists with option #'s 1 & 2 being the best:

To define what is within compressible reason, I looked at the actual width of the Lock Pillar Rubber Cover plus the overlaying Side Panel Cover Strip which are what we are trying to hold in place with this rivet, which is shown in this next photo:

Here depicts the width of the uncompressed Rivets #'s 1 & 2 which I think are our best options (also #5 can be found as well in this size, length and color too):

Here depicts the width of the true Tubular Rivets, which I was unable to find one that can compress into the range that we would need:

And another view of the best choices #'s 1 & 2 which are wide double cap speedy/compression rivets:

Whereas here is another view of the Tubular Rivets:

Perhaps the only slight criticism of my two top choices is that the back cap is finished, whereas a true tubular rivet (which again is what is mentioned in the parts list) has the stem tube hole confluent with an unfinished rear surface. Which is why these top choices are called double cap rivets, and will actually look better from the rear side than the original. All tubular rivets that I could find had both stem diameters and stem lengths that were far too large when looking at the cap diameter that we would require.

Now, the next question that you might ask is how to install these? Well, that is pretty easy. Options #'s 1, 2 & 5 all have instructions that describe first simply snapping them together with finger pressure, and then using a rivet setter and anvil and tap the setter with a hammer/mallet to get the rivet to compress. You can easily compress them 2-3mm to the point which will be perfect for our use. But trust me that these rivets can compress easily all the way down to a total width of 2mm without a lot of effort. I tried that out on my bench top. But using a mallet on a rivet setter (metal rod of 6" long by 1/2" thickness to fit perfectly over the head of the rivet) scared me more than a little thinking "Gee, what if I slip?" There goes the new paint in that area. OK, sure you could protect the area first too with a protective tarp/cover, but you know I have been excited to try something new on more than one occasion and thought, "no problem, I got this" and then Doh! My being impatient has gotten me into trouble on more than one occasion. I'm sure that has never happened to any of you. Or you can do what is stated in the 50 year old instructions that I saw when studying the service manual where it states to cover a C-clamp or vice grips, or even an anvil clamp with leather and just go slowly and compress it to where you like it. If any of you have that exact page, you can post it. I saw it looking at the incredible Samba online material, but didn't save which manual I saw it in, so I can't quote it exactly.

One final and important tidbit to note (if I didn't lose you already) is that you can get the two top rivets for FREE! I used Charley's tip and emailed the company and asked them for some free samples. They gladly send you 4 or 5 of them, which is just enough to test out one on your bench and then install a couple and still have one or two left over in case one falls off, which I doubt will ever happen. As for all the rest of the choices, all except for the Fastex will have to be purchased, but you won't have to buy those now that you can see which ones are the most accurate reproductions of the originals.

[crocteau]

Nice work Scott! It's great to see how this thread has evolved. I wonder, can info on a rivet attain sticky status?

[mod edit; Hint taken and added to the "Follow the best "How to" threads here - Ghia FAQ". under Bodywork & Cosmetic Items. / Roof]