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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:26 pm Post subject: Turbo Question <<Now with PICS page 3>> |
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hi yall. i got a question for yall. i just got a drawthrough turbo set-up for my bug, and it came with the intakes, header, turbo, and carb (weber 32/ 36 progressive). basically to give ya an idea of how it looks, the carbs is normally where the stock carb goes, it has a pipe running down to the turbo. the turbo is right in front of the pulley. from the turbo the pipe runs in between the belt, where the fuel pump goes, and from there splits in two and then each side clamps on the stock dual port end-castings. so anyway he told me i need a locked down dizzy and a fuel pump with a variable switch (or somethin glike that), so the more boost, the more pfuel pressure.
Will locking down the distributor so it doesn't advance make it run good? will it run good if i don't lock it down will it run bad?
same for the fuel pump. i can't use the stock pump cause the intake for the engine (comming from the turbo) goes thru inbetween the belt and where the stock pump normally goes. could i just use an electric pump (i think it puts out like 5psi). if not where could i buy this adjustable pressure thing, and what is it called?
thanks in advance yall.
-Mike
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!!
Last edited by BugMan114 on Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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miniman82
Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 9515
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Turbo Question |
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| BugMan114 wrote: |
| Will locking down the distributor so it doesn't advance make it run good? will it run good if i don't lock it down will it run bad? |
You'll have crappy gas milage, and off boost response could be pretty sluggish. I personally think locked distributors are a cheapo way to get around boost timing, there are many other ways to do this with better results. One way is to keep the distributor timing the way it is, and add a boost retard box like MSD 6BTM. Another is a pressure retard can on the dizzy, like the draw through turbo Corvairs used. Or you can always go with a computer programmable ignition (what I did), which will give you the correct timing every time no matter what.
For the fuel pump, you'll have to go electric. Make sure to use a good quality regulator, like a Holley. Shouldn't be a problem. The 'adjustable pressure thing' you refer to is likely boost compensated fuel pressure, or what's called a boost referenced regulator. It increases your fuel pressure in relation to boost, so you don;t run lean and detonate.
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
| Glenn wrote: |
| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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awsome, so i guess my next question would be, is any of that stuff nessesary on my set-up? i'm only running about 4 lbs of boot? do ya think i'll still need all that? i do NOT plan to go any higher on the boost with this motor (as it is bone stock).
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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miniman82
Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 9515
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| BugMan114 wrote: |
| I'm only running about 4 lbs of boot? do ya think i'll still need all that? i do NOT plan to go any higher on the boost with this motor (as it is bone stock). |
Stop fooling yourself, you'll go higher trust me. A stock 1600 should take 8 lbs no problem, so shoot for that. At 8 lbs, you may even be able to get away with limiting your advace, rather than locking it. Love to see some pics, BTW.
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
| Glenn wrote: |
| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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naa. its my daily driver. i don't want to risk blowing it. at least not after some upgrades. (Curently Its BONE STOCK) but do you think i can get away with leaving the dizzy as-is? or will i still need to limit it somehow?
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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DarthWeber
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2007
Posts: 7543
Location: Whittier,CA
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camch
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2004
Posts: 165
Location: griffin ga
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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did you get that set up from high falls? is that the 1 the guy supposeablly put a carbon seal in it??
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57 bug drag car
71 squareback
73ragtop super beetle
2007,08,09,10 and 11 track champion (pro-4)A.M.S |
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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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yeah. the turbo was in perfect shape. looked new too. had absolutely no play. He even showed me how to take it apart and put back together. very cool. he let me have it all for $280.
still reading the links above, but haven't found anything bout the dizzy yet.
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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camch
Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2004
Posts: 165
Location: griffin ga
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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the guy told us that he and another guy took it apart themselves, and could not get it to stop smoking. but you need to lock the distributer to be on the safe side
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57 bug drag car
71 squareback
73ragtop super beetle
2007,08,09,10 and 11 track champion (pro-4)A.M.S |
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miniman82
Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 9515
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Glenn has a distributor curving machine... I bet if you ask nice he'll help you with limiting your advance. 
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
| Glenn wrote: |
| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| camch wrote: |
| the guy told us that he and another guy took it apart themselves, and could not get it to stop smoking. but you need to lock the distributer to be on the safe side |
oh shit. i think you're right, i ran my finger along the inside and there is a coating of gunk (like you'd find on the outside of an old oily gunky motor), all along the inside. what could that be caused by? could it have just been his engine leaking oil, or do you think the turbo may be leaking?
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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i also heard that with the oil line, you run it from where the oil pressure switch goes to the turbo, then the return line on the turbo, to the valve cover. but in the oil line you are supposed to have some sort of regulator cause the turbo uses very little oil. the guy i bought it from never said anything about that, and i didn't see anything like this in his pics of the motor (he had a book with pics of the motor, and all his other cars). if that regulator isn't installed, could that cause the excess oil to seep out of somewhere, and cause it to leak?
Oh and to run the actuall line, i found a T fitting with two female ends and one male end. so i screwed the male end into the block, screwed the pressure switch into one of the female end, and the other female end i put a hose fitting, where i attached the hose, from there to the turbo.
what kind of regulator do i use, and where would i find a regulator for this (if this is what i need), and how much pressure should i set it to(if it is adjustable)? thanks
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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Kyle73
Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2006
Posts: 210
Location: Roseburg,Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:06 am Post subject: |
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ive seen the oil line from the oil pump go in the turbo, then out the turbo and in the case where the pressure unit is. there is many ways you can do this. out of the case in the turbo then out and in to a oil sump.
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63' bug 1914 /=0=\
69 stock bug
69 bus |
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Joel
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Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:32 am Post subject: |
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turbos only need a tiny oil supply
to much and they will smoke like a bitch
all ive ever done is a Tee off the pressure switch sender and hose upto the turbo with a 2mm restrictor but a huge bore drain helps alot to
never lock a dissy for a force fed motor thats so ghetto and runs like shit
a very easy and effective method thats worked well for me on several setups is a grub screw tapped into the stop plate and wound in to limit the wieghts
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Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle |
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sbnova
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Joined: January 27, 2005
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Location: Lakeland,FL
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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:41 am Post subject: |
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awsome, so the stock 30 degrees at full advance should be fine then? BTW its a 009 dizzy. Again, i am NOT going to go any higher then 4 or 5 PSI. as i really don't want to blow it. I will most likely build a tubo set-up for my other cars tho 
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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miniman82
Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 9515
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:45 am Post subject: |
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You can probably get away with retarding your base timing by a few degrees, it won't make a huge difference in how it runs. I'm telling you though, 4 lbs won't be enough. You'll be at 8 lbs by the end of the week looking for more.
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
| Glenn wrote: |
| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:49 am Post subject: |
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dude, that would be sweet, and i probrobly will, but not after changing out the rocker arms, shafts, pushrods, and all that crap out with stronger stuff. And that stuff comes next pay check
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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miniman82
Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 9515
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:10 am Post subject: |
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1600's can actually take a fair amount of boost on a regular basis, it's all in the tuning. As long as you take care of the timing correctly, and ensure you don't run it into detonation, there's no reason it wouldn't last.
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
| Glenn wrote: |
| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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Callook59
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Jacksonville, NC 28546
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:14 am Post subject: |
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A good oil drain line from the turbo is very important. Usually a 1/2" line works "just dandy". You want it to be able to gravity drain....if you can keep the drain line vertical, all the better. Running 8PSI or less, I wouldn't even bother with a boost sensitive pressure regulator. If you're going higher than that, I'd say run a new 3/8" fuel line from the tank back (you can buy a fuel line kit from Summit pretty cheap), use a Holley RED pump and regulator....to make the regulator "boost sensitive" you'd need to drill and tap an 1/8" NPT into the top portion of the regulator, and the same on the intake manifold. Then connect a line between the manifold and the regulator. What this does is to basically blow the diaphram in the fuel pressure regulator open under boost, to keep lots of fuel flowing.
IMHO One of the first upgrades you should make on that engine is a solid rocker shaft kit and a crank pulley with timing marks.
Also, if there's a bunch of "gunk" in the turbo, its either from the previous engine having bad rings or valve guides....or it could have a dynamic seal. There are 2 different types of seals for the impeller shaft on the turbo...dynamic and carbon. A carbon seal is a solid one piece seal....while a dynamic seal is like a piston ring, with a small gap in it.
I also believe that the weber progressive will work fine. I used to work for lowbugget.com YEARS AGO, and we ran them all the time. On a 1915 with a 110 cam and pretty much stock components, 15psi was LOTS of fun. They work fine for under the decklid kits and daily drivers...although I think that the holley, weber sidedraft and dellorto side draft are better for maximum power.
BTW these are just my OPINIONS and im sure others will argue with me and agree with me too.
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56 Oval Window 2175 turbo
56 Euro Karmann Ghia
62 Double Cab
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