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felixbobcat
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2017
Posts: 172
Location: Los Angeles
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 Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:49 pm Post subject: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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Just got my Westy on the road after a lot of tinkering. It's an 85 with a 2.1L engine with the digifant ECU and cooling system. It has the original auto trans. Only thing I think that could alter the RPM's is the tire size. I've got 225/60 -16 tires.
My thinking is that the larger size tires would decrease RPM's. I have noticed It revving higher at lower speeds and wondered if the trans is not up-shifting soon enough. The high rev's are more noticeable when everything is still cold after start up.
The car was well warmed up when I got it to the test station. Maybe the Torque converter is slipping a little? If that can happen.
Any thoughts? Maybe check the governor to see if its adjusted correctly? |
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AZ Landshaper
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2009
Posts: 1706
Location: The Old Pueblo
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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I’ve never heard of a car not passing omissions based on the RPMs being too high it a certain mile per hour. That sounds crazy. What state?
Oh Cal. Not that surprising but never heard of such a thing.
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64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
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felixbobcat
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2017
Posts: 172
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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Forgot to mention the van sat un-driven for five years. I replaced all the seals on the trans and drained and put in a new filter. I also added an external cooler from Van Cafe.
Maybe a thorough flush and new fluid again? Read in Bentley it should shift to second at 21mph. The trans get's it cue to shift from RPM's not speed, correct? The 85 has a mechanical speedo. |
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felixbobcat
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2017
Posts: 172
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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| AZ Landshaper wrote: |
I’ve never heard of a car not passing omissions based on the RPMs being too high it a certain mile per hour. That sounds crazy. What state?
Oh Cal. Not that surprising but never heard of such a thing. |
Yeah, Never heard that one before either. Newer machines. I guess the reasoning is if it's reviewing too high then its burning more gas at what should be normal speed and RPM. |
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Beetsport
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2005
Posts: 477
Location: Sacramento, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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| felixbobcat wrote: |
Forgot to mention the van sat un-driven for five years. I replaced all the seals on the trans and drained and put in a new filter. I also added an external cooler from Van Cafe.
Maybe a thorough flush and new fluid again? Read in Bentley it should shift to second at 21mph. The trans get's it cue to shift from RPM's not speed, correct? The 85 has a mechanical speedo. |
During the smog test do you know if the transmission is shifting into second gear or still in first? The smog technician should be able to tell you this.
Taller tires will lower your engine speed.
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Phaedrus
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Joined: January 06, 2014
Posts: 500
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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Large tires will effectively lower your rpm at any given speed.
Too far advanced timing will cause your rpms to be higher, earlier. Check and see where the timing is at. If it hasn't run in 5 years and all you did was reseal your trans... you need to do a proper tune up before a smog check, imo.
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felixbobcat
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2017
Posts: 172
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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| Phaedrus wrote: |
Large tires will effectively lower your rpm at any given speed.
Too far advanced timing will cause your rpms to be higher, earlier. Check and see where the timing is at. If it hasn't run in 5 years and all you did was reseal your trans... you need to do a proper tune up before a smog check, imo. |
I purchased the van without an engine just trans. I installed an engine from a recently running car and it did pass all the other emissions tests today. There was one other failure and that was the gas cap. Apparently I did a proper job resealing the tank since all the fuel lines had perished. I was planning on giving it a tune up regardless but have not received the tune up parts yet.
I set the timing to 5 degrees BTD. Maybe I'll back it off a few degrees.
Last edited by felixbobcat on Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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felixbobcat
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2017
Posts: 172
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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| Beetsport wrote: |
| felixbobcat wrote: |
Forgot to mention the van sat un-driven for five years. I replaced all the seals on the trans and drained and put in a new filter. I also added an external cooler from Van Cafe.
Maybe a thorough flush and new fluid again? Read in Bentley it should shift to second at 21mph. The trans get's it cue to shift from RPM's not speed, correct? The 85 has a mechanical speedo. |
During the smog test do you know if the transmission is shifting into second gear or still in first? The smog technician should be able to tell you this.
Taller tires will lower your engine speed. |
I couldn't tell if it was shifting and he didn't mention it. Honestly I was surprised that it passed all the other emissions tests except for a faulty gas cap. |
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Stuartzickefoose
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Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:10 pm Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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| Phaedrus wrote: |
Large tires will effectively lower your rpm at any given speed.
Too far advanced timing will cause your rpms to be higher, earlier. Check and see where the timing is at. If it hasn't run in 5 years and all you did was reseal your trans... you need to do a proper tune up before a smog check, imo. |
Actually that’s not physically possible. Engine and transmissions have a coupling if either fluid or a mechanical clutch. If they are slipping, then rpm will be higher. Ignition timing will only affect idle speed in regards to RPM.
Where in Cali?
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52618
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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The stock torque converter has a stall speed of 2700 rpms, which is pretty dang high and once the vehicle is moving a bit the engine may well be running at 3000 rpms if the pedal is depressed very far. This is absolutely normal.
If the seals in the tranny are old and hard you may not be getting an upshift even though the valve body is signalling for it to happen. Also there is no set speed for the upshift to happen, there is a maximum speed, but at part throttle the upshift should occur much earlier if everything is set up correctly and the engine is running well. The transmission receives pseudo feedback telling it the load the engine is under from the throttle rod between the lever on the transmission and the throttle body. If the rod is not adjusted correctly the shift may occur to early or to late. IIRC, you want to shorten the rod to cause the shift to occur earlier. I may well have this backwards.  |
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danfromsyr
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Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15406
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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trying to remember if the governor is involved in upshifts or dowshifts.
could have sticking flyweights from sitting.
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felixbobcat
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2017
Posts: 172
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
The stock torque converter has a stall speed of 2700 rpms, which is pretty dang high and once the vehicle is moving a bit the engine may well be running at 3000 rpms if the pedal is depressed very far. This is absolutely normal.
If the seals in the tranny are old and hard you may not be getting an upshift even though the valve body is signalling for it to happen. Also there is no set speed for the upshift to happen, there is a maximum speed, but at part throttle the upshift should occur much earlier if everything is set up correctly and the engine is running well. The transmission receives pseudo feedback telling it the load the engine is under from the throttle rod between the lever on the transmission and the throttle body. If the rod is not adjusted correctly the shift may occur to early or to late. IIRC, you want to shorten the rod to cause the shift to occur earlier. I may well have this backwards. |
The throttle rod is a problem currently. I'm waiting for the missing compression spring that goes on the end of the throttle rod to arrive in a package from Brickwerks in England. The other problem is adjusting the idle speed because of this missing part. The rod is connected to the throttle body with a locking pin from a manual trans, not allowing it move with the aid of the compression spring. The tachometer is wandering all over the place so I have not been able to judge the idle speed of the engine. |
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felixbobcat
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Joined: December 13, 2017
Posts: 172
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
trying to remember if the governor is involved in upshifts or dowshifts.
could have sticking flyweights from sitting. |
I had a 61 Dodge that also been sitting for years. It would not shift out of first gear. I pulled the governor off the back of the trans an found it was stuck in position. Once freeing it up the trans shifted normally.
I looked int the Bentley and theres not a lot of information concerning the governor.
There is information on adjusting the 2nd gear band during rebuild. Can that be done with the trans full of fluid? |
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dobryan
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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stevey88
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Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: Fremont, SF Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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Please post a photo of the printed smog test result from the test station.
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JDEL
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2010
Posts: 112
Location: Orange County Ca.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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| I would try turning on your headlights and then tighten down the idle control screw on the throttle body. I had the same problem once with Ca. smog |
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tjet
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Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3727
Location: Az
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:43 am Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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Your van is performing out of range - note the limited MPH & RPM green band
Did they complete the test & send it off to the state? If so, did it give you a PASS or FAIL?
The reason I'm asking is because this car failed the 25 MPH test as it lost the RPM pickup signal, but it ulimatley passed.
Take a look at 2:35
Link
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termuehlen 
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Joined: May 02, 2012
Posts: 1034
Location: Redwood City
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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The fact that your gas cap failed is a red flag for me, in regards to the smog shop. It is possible that your cap is faulty, but my experience has been that if a smog shop tells you that, they may not be set up to test your vehicle. I have gone to one smog shop, failed the gas cap test, bought a new flaps cap, and failed again. The shop did not have the right adapter to fit the cap, and just failed it.
I recently passed smog with my auto trans (Subaru conversion). 15 mph RPM 2090. 25 mph 2102. What does your Vehicle Inspection Report state for your RPMs?
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AZ Landshaper
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Joined: February 08, 2009
Posts: 1706
Location: The Old Pueblo
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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Lets see this report.
Lots of subys have shaved governors. You might pull your gov and take a look for shits and giggles.. Takes 7 minutes. Maybe the weights are wonky.
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Support Small Business.
-------------------------------------------------------
85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug. |
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felixbobcat
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2017
Posts: 172
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Smog Fail, engine RPM too high at 25mph. Any ideas on a fix? |
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Here's the report.
High RPM On both speeds. I don't think he had the right gas cap either. |
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