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Freshening up the auto trans: what to buy, what to do list
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devesvws
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:46 pm    Post subject: Freshening up the auto trans: what to buy, what to do list Reply with quote

my 91 carat needs the auto trans gone over. the po said it was leaking trans fluid and leaving a trail of smoke when he parked it, but i am yet to see one drip. its been sitting for the most part about 5 years, so it needs a good going over. i hope to have it on the road by the end of april. what parts might i need, and will i need any special tools??
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r39o
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am taking the coward's way out. For $800 the guys will completely over haul the automatic half and reseal the final drive.

Read the Bentley about the procedure. I hear it is not hard, but I am afraid of all the little parts.

Plus they are going to mod my box for my Suby.

It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

Parts are like a $200 if you do not need any hard stuff like a pump. My guys got lots of stuff laying around if needed. Not bad in my book. I do not want to learn on an item that is integral to the van.
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tclark
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What would you do to Over Build the auto tranny
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=379502


std soft rebuild kit(clutch plates, seals, gaskets etc)
http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1985/volkswagen/v...l_kit.html
then maybe new flex-plate 022-105-323-D,
http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/genuine-part-carrier-plate_8631.html
if possible src a audi 5000t 26tooth planetary, the thicker/more clutch plates (7 instead of 6)
(you can also get the benefit of heavy duty clutch plates with the 28tooth units)
-get a newer type Forward Clutch diaphragm spring VW# 010 323 229 D

in the final drive/differential
replace the 4 bearings, seals, shims even back down the tolerance when installing the shims to handle more torque with less play
maybe even find one of those elusive higher ratio audi 5000t final drives
replace the torque converter
synthetic autotrans fluid

replace vw MickeyMouse heat exchanger with a Air to Air cooler
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=378448
or
a full blown REAL water based heat exchanger 2000201300/2000201301
http://www.crracing.com/custom-built-products/external-heat-exchanger
you got religion here on whats best
Air is cheaper REAL water heat exchanger is a lot more $$$

BY this time your thinking hmmm this is reaaly goona start to add up
maybe I'll just bite the bullet spend $3K & get
http://www.transaxleengineering.com/Pages/Transaxle%20Pages/Sand%20Transaxles.html
a Bullet Proof auto tranny from transaxleengineering yup they put vanagon auto trannys in 500HP sand rails well its not really a vanagon tranny any more its gots the audi 5000t guts, custom Toyota Tacoma torque converter , Porsche 930 cv flanges, hardened gears & some misc other custom fab'd in-house parts Smile
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devesvws
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i do have a 90 audi 100 non turbo trans for later use, but i need to just get the basic stuff done, and get this project going. thanks for the great info.
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deprivation
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a remanned flex plate at GoWesty for 100 bucks. A deal, for sure and it was beautiful.
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devesvws
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so is the oem automatic transmission oil cooler a must to change? and what about the flex plate is it a must to change also?
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randywebb
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they are talking about making it stronger

you said "freshening up" - to me that means new fluid; new fluid in the differential, and I think there is a filter in the trans also

I'm told the pan has to be dropped & resealed.

I have not done this but here are some notes I've collected:

Vanagon Automatic Transmission Service Recommendations:

6.3 quarts dry fill, 3.2 quarts on refill. Check cold, check again when good and warm.

VW recommends Dexron/Dexron II or Dexron III is also available.
Do NOT use ATF+3 or Type F. Valvoline also makes a MaxLife ATF for transmissions over 75,000 miles that is ok.


the automatic to final drive seal can leak which is common problem with the 3 speed autos from that vintage. A good shop will be able to tell if it is "intermixing."

heat exchanger is made of aluminum and costs about $300 installed, and
should be replaced every 10 years

replace Differential seals every third service, or 90,000 miles

BG Products Synthetic ATF

Ford Type F - sez Terry Kay

20,000 mile trans filter & oil changes are recommended and pretty much the norm--the B&M & Type F will go that far real easy.

Dunno if this one is for a manual or auto:

- on the top of the transmission there are two breather ports covered by
metal covers that resemble metal valve stem caps on tires. What can
happen is that over time these caps rust away to nothing or otherwise
evaporate and trash gets down inside the breather ports. Now you have
pressure building up inside the transmission that no seal will keep
in. I would check these breather ports before you pull the
transmission. They can been seen from the engine bay if you look back
along the top of the transmission with a flashlight. Clean them out
with a nail or ice pick.
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randywebb
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

also - Final drive seals (AT only) Replace every 90k miles

whatever that means...
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devesvws
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the seals are what i am most focused on. the po said trans fluid was leaking and smoking, but i have yet to see one drip. i started it up today after over a year siting. the trans moved the van nicely up the hill, with no slippage or hesitation. when its all said and done, i think i will get the bg flush and fill service on it.
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JeffRobenolt
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Modified rabbit valve body from GTA
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r39o
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrobewesty wrote:
Modified rabbit valve body from GTA

I can sort of guess but not sure what and from whom?

Later newer computer controlled boxes benefit from machined valve bodies. But the slippage and pressure issues of the later ones is not an issue on these Vanagon automatics.

So what gives?
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JeffRobenolt
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll have to ask Ken at German Transaxle of America (GTA).

I asked him if there was anything else to make the best van tranny besides the Audi parts and he just told me he modified rabbit valve bodies to put in Vanagons that shift firmer.

I just said put one in the mail then, maybe I should ask more Q's but I like spending $$$ on the van.

Jeff
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indytriple
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have my auto transmission out of the van in preparation for installing my Bostig.

It's hasn't received any attention since I bought the van three years ago so I'm going to freshen it up a bit. I'll be having German Transaxle rebuild it and install a positraction differential next winter. Consquently, I simply want to do more basic, inexpensive maintenance at this point.

In the past it's had a torque converter seal leak, governor oil seal leak, and leaks from both pans. It's a mess. Cleaning has been the main task up to this point. The two breather ports on top weren't even visible when I started. I've never known that they were there until I uncovered them tonight.

Once it's all cleaned up I plan to buy and install the following:

-Governor Oil Seal
-Service Kit (Pan Gasket, Screen, Paper Gasket)
-Torque Converter Seals (using two back-to-back)
-Differential Pan Gasket
-Drive Axle Seals
-Aftermarket Transmission Mount
-Selector Shaft Boot
-Fresh Ford Type F ATF and Gear Oil

All of that should cost less than $150.

I already have the GoWesty External Cooler Kit, so there's no need to do anything in that regard.

Bostig very strongly recommends against rebuilding the torque converter (or the transmission) at the time of engine conversion so I'll just pop the old torque converter on after I install the new seals.

I'm going to buy a seal puller tool to remove the old seals. I like this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MCVPVM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Per the Bentley, I'm going to use a block of wood to install the Drive Axle Seals. What's the best tool/technique to use to install torque converter seals?

Should I use any kind of RTV when I install the cork differential pan gasket?

Thanks in advance for the help. I promise to post pictures once I get into the nitty gritty.
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madspaniard
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indytriple wrote:


Bostig very strongly recommends against rebuilding the torque converter (or the transmission) at the time of engine conversion ....


Any idea why?
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indytriple
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

madspaniard wrote:
indytriple wrote:


Bostig very strongly recommends against rebuilding the torque converter (or the transmission) at the time of engine conversion ....


Any idea why?


Yes...Here it is in the Bostig instruction manual.

"IMPORTANT NOTE FOR AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION CONVERSIONS!
DO NOT! have your Automatic Transmission or Torque converter rebuilt just prior to the conversion process. Leave the setup which has been working
in your van for at least 3000 miles after you've completed the conversion. While it may be a bit of a headache down the road, it is crucial to determine that everything is working properly on the conversion, and if you do have a problem arise with a rebuilt torque converter down the road, you can know it is not conversion related. If you have any questions or special circumstances please give us a call regarding this."
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indytriple
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked for the VW 681 tool that is recommended for removing seals when working on the transmission. It is not available due to the fact that it was a tool that VW expected dealers and mechanics to have made locally. I did find the specs for the tool, though, in case anyone ever wants to make one or have some made for a group buy (hint, hint). The advantage to this specific tool over a typical seal puller tool is probably minimal, but it seems that it is a bit smaller in length and "tooth" size than most similar tools on the market.

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indytriple
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a link to my photo album for this project. So far, it's only pictures of the cleaning process and where the leaks are, but more will be added soon as I get the parts and start installing them.

http://indytriple.smugmug.com/Cars/Westy-Transmission-Basic/27167436_f2gLw9

I would love to have any and all advice that folks have about this job.
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JeffRobenolt
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My normal seal puller worked just fine removing the seals, but I like tools, could always use another.

As far as not redoing a transmission at the same time as an engine conversion, not sure what I think of that.
If you have never rebuilt one before and are guessing if it will work I would say wait til the engine conversion is sorted out.

If you or who built it knows what they are doing it would be fine. I'm sure Ken at GTA or Daryl at AA don't have a disclaimer of not to do an engine conversion when you are installing one of there transmissions. Wink

As far as advise, if you are going to seal it, just seal it. Double seals for the torque convertor.

If you are going farther than that go all the way and call Ken or John at GTA for the rebuild or any parts that you are going to put in.

With how we use our vans, don't want to skimp on something like this.

I see you are doing the Bostig Mr Triple, I hope we run into each other next year so I can do a little test drive! I have seen one but never driven, it sure looked nice.

With you driving my van last summer, I don't know if you could even notice the upgrades done to the trans or not?? But it is good to know you have done everything you could to make it newer and better when your driving xcountry.

Jeff
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deprivation
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did simply replacing the torque converter seal fix the leak at that point? Was it simply an old/bad seal?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrobewesty wrote:
My normal seal puller worked just fine removing the seals, but I like tools, could always use another.


Good to know. I'll order the one from Amazon this evening.

jrobewesty wrote:
As far as advise, if you are going to seal it, just seal it. Double seals for the torque convertor.


Ordered all of the seals from Van Cafe today. Should be here end of next week. I will definitely double up on the TC seals. I'm running two on my Carat.

jrobewesty wrote:
I see you are doing the Bostig Mr Triple, I hope we run into each other next year so I can do a little test drive! I have seen one but never driven, it sure looked nice.


I'd love to return the favor. Maybe we'll make it up to your neck of the woods this year.

jrobewesty wrote:
With you driving my van last summer, I don't know if you could even notice the upgrades done to the trans or not?? But it is good to know you have done everything you could to make it newer and better when your driving xcountry.


It felt super smooth when I drove it. I'll be getting the full monty rebuild next winter on the tranny with a Positraction Diff.
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